<p>@Schrodingerscat: this is actually possible in math (for the class) - the French tend to grade harsher for top papers in the Humanities than in the sciences. It’s also possible to get a 20 on a subject for the bac because your jury thought it was the most brilliant paper they’d read that year or in a while but that’s kind of a fluke. 
Anything above 13 tends to indicate someone, in American terms, with a regional or national ranking in the subject. (14 correspond to a benchmark that is designed to be reachable only for 10% students, for example. The benchmarks are being lowered - 20 years ago the 14 benchmark was accessible to only 5% nationally.)</p>
<p>@MYOS1634
Oh. So if I apply to public universities, I’ll almost automatically get rejected?
I’m also thinking about NYU, UMichigan, UIUC, Georgia Tech, CMU… Do I stand no chance for those? They’re just examples.</p>
<p>What if full price isn’t a problem? My parents’ income is above the national average, and I can also get help from other people.
Bank account? Do you mean you have to really have 60k, or do you have to EARN 60k per year?</p>
<p>I’ve heard of liberal arts colleges but I’ve never considered them because I really wanted to get a bachelor’s at a prestigious university (because of the alumni networks). I’m looking at colleges/universities which are known for their opportunities for making connections.
Thanks, I’ll take a look at those links.</p>
<p>Alright I won’t repeat then. I’ll do my best.</p>
<p>They don’t? You sure? Someone told me that having a Bac S with excellent grades gave you great chances of getting into a top college…
I’ll ask about the “section internationale”, I didn’t even know it existed. Is it a big plus?
I’ll probably be applying for a CS degree. Therefore, does it count as engineering or is it in the Arts and Sciences?</p>
<p>A 14 is above an A? So if I get, say, 15 at the baccalaureate (my lyc</p>
<p>Continued from my last message.</p>
<p>@ChickenLadder</p>
<p>Alright so doing ES has NO influence AT ALL on my chances if I apply for the college of Arts and Science (which I presume CS belongs to)?
Undeclared? What is that and how is it different? Do I just take lots of different classes?
I thought doing S gave you a significant advantage.</p>
<p>If I don’t get into S after appel, I’ll do ES.
I’ll definitely work my a** off in 11th/12th, I’ve never really worked before so I can probably get fourteens if I spend two hours a day on my courses</p>
<p>I’m not planning on doing physics, though other fields of science and engineering interest me.</p>
<p>Anyways, since I’m not interested in an office job and want to make “friends” (read: become well connected) at university, I have to go to an university which as a somewhat reputable name.
Would it be the same to attend a top program for graduate studies? I guess that would be easier, right?</p>
<p>how much are you planning on getting on the SAT?</p>
<p>I don’t really know.
Why?</p>
<p>dont bother applying to ivys/stanford if you don’t have AT LEAST 2050. to have a chance at top 50 universities you will need a 1900+…</p>
<p>If I want Michigan, UIUC, CMU and the others, a 1900+ is needed, and if I want the Ivies, a 2050+ is required. Alright, I’ll remember that.
Either way, I can retake the SAT so whatever. I’ll do my best and if it doesn’t work out as expected, I’ll re-do my best…</p>
<p>@Hellaflush:
No you have good odds of admission for public universities if you’re not too picky, but check out their policy on merit aid since public universities do not give need-based aid. In addition, the more prestigious the public university, the lower the odds that you’ll get in since they must first serve their in state applicants, then permanent residents/citizens. Odds are better if you are full pay and the first year class is very large.
Since many universities cost $60,000 A YEAR, your family would have to make a lot more than that to pay for your studies without any financial aid. For example, public universities in California require that you show $60,000 in your bank accounts before they look at your application. Many other public universities will require $30,000 to 40,000 - even if you don’t actually pay that much. </p>
<p>Private schools with good financial aid for International students:
[Top</a> 25 Financial Aid Colleges in US for International Students (Need-aware) - Desperate Guide: Undergraduate College Financial Aid, Scholarship](<a href=“http://www.desperateguide.com/us/top-25-financial-aid-colleges-in-us-for-international-students-need-aware]Top”>http://www.desperateguide.com/us/top-25-financial-aid-colleges-in-us-for-international-students-need-aware)</p>
<p>NYU is notorious for its bad financial aid so unless you’re wealthy I wouldn’t count it in; in addition, it’s not public. The public university of the city of New York is called CUNY, some of its better schools are Baruch or City College, but housing is very expensive and fills up fast so you have to apply early; in addition, you can apply to Macaulay, the Honors Program, a program for more motivated students who enjoy discussions and which could help with costs and housing (there are special Macaulay scholarships but for international they’re different from the scholarships for NYC residents or citizens). Public universities in the State of New York are called SUNYs. Some SUNYs are near NYC, but some are 8 hours away. Geneseo is a very good school for a relatively low cost if you can afford OOS tuition.
[Welcome</a> to CUNY - The City University of New York](<a href=“http://www.cuny.edu/index.html]Welcome”>The City University of New York)
[suny.edu</a> - The State University of New York](<a href=“http://www.suny.edu/]suny.edu”>http://www.suny.edu/)
As far as I know, CMU does not give any financial aid to undergraduate applicants (and it’s not public).
[Carnegie</a> Mellon Admission | International Student Tuition](<a href=“http://admission.enrollment.cmu.edu/pages/cost-payment]Carnegie”>http://admission.enrollment.cmu.edu/pages/cost-payment)</p>
<p>With a bac ES, your best odds are choosing a college that does not have divisions, so that you can apply to the general college. Engineering colleges would require a bac S but general colleges would not, as they would admit you to the college and let you take the first CS and math classes to see whether you can succeed.
I hope you’d be ES-math though?</p>
<p>Here’s the story of a French S student who started out with Math and CS, and is now Economics /Management and CS.
[Pourquoi</a> j?ai choisi St Olaf | French Student in the USA](<a href=“http://usafrenchstudent.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2012/08/10/pourquoi-jai-choisi-st-olaf/]Pourquoi”>Pourquoi j’ai choisi St Olaf – French Student in the USA)
[Differences</a> culturelles(2): les profs | French Student in the USA](<a href=“http://usafrenchstudent.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2012/12/05/differences-culturelles2-les-profs/]Differences”>Differences culturelles(2): les profs – French Student in the USA)
[Resultats</a> des finals | French Student in the USA](<a href=“http://usafrenchstudent.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/01/09/resultats-des-finals/]Resultats”>Resultats des finals – French Student in the USA)
[Bilan</a> des cours du premier semestre | French Student in the USA](<a href=“http://usafrenchstudent.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/01/10/bilan-des-cours-du-premier-semestre/]Bilan”>Bilan des cours du premier semestre – French Student in the USA)
[LE</a> retour | French Student in the USA](<a href=“http://usafrenchstudent.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/04/08/le-retoru/]LE”>LE retour – French Student in the USA)
These posts explain the process of going from Terminale to a freshman year in an American college. The school he’s attending has a very good reputation for math and science, BTW.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>it’s a misconception due to the British colleges being less than universities and because in France the best-known universities are known for their PHD programs. Unfortunately, a good PHD program does not imply a good undergraduate degree, although it’s certainly not in opposition.
For example, I would argue that graduating from a Top 30 LAC is better for your education and more prestigious than graduating from UIUC undergrad -and that would be a major understatement. It all depends on what you hope to do: UIUC is NOT a bad school, sports are big, if you can get into the Honors College you’d have an excellent learning environment, the CS program is excellent, and odds are good you’d find a job. So how do you compare Lehigh and UIUC? the criteria are too many and the weight you’ll place on each is entirely subjective. Prestige shouldn’t be the top one though.
I don’t think students should subscribe to the “prestige racket”, so if you liked UIUC’s atmosphere, had the money, and got into the Honors College, I wouldn’t think twice about “prestige”. BTW, essentially when looking at rankings, make little groupings whereby all schools are considered equally prestigious and selective if within the same group. I’d say top 25 national universities + top 30 LACs (where all bets are off and NO school is a safety or even a “match”), then the next 15 national universities + top 30 Lacs, then groups of 20 or 25 in each category; plus the top 5-10 from regional universities and regional colleges, as safeties.
However this could be moot unless your 1e bac scores are in the 15 range with none under 13 - it’d be a mistake to think top LACs would be less selective than the national universities from the equivalent group. LACs are very much like pr</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Undeclared = you don’t say what you’d like to study on your application.
Typically you apply to the college as a whole.
However in big universities with many divisions or schools, you must apply directly to a specific division (or “college”) so you would only be undeclared within that school.
(Anyway, 70% freshmen change between what they “declare” on the application and what they actually do in the Fall :p. What you declare on the application is nonbinding, you can totally change your mind for a college without divisions; however if the university admits you for Political Science or Sociology and you decide to switch to CS once on campus, it may not be easy in a school where you apply directly to a division or school within the university.)</p>
<p>I didn’t read every posts there but I’m about to finish the lyc</p>
<p>@MYOS1634
If I’m not too picky…? So I can forget the “public Ivies” and all the other good public schools (such as Michigan) too?
I said that I probably will not need any kind of financial aid as long as it doesn’t cost more than 65-70k dollars a year orsomething. So that increases my chances.
Basically, should I rather try private colleges or public universities? It’s kind of messed up, I don’t understand if I actually stand less chances in one or the other.
I’ll take a look at private colleges too anyway. Furthermore, Caltech is interesting (I didn’t really consider it before) but I don’t know if the admissions rate makes it actually reasonable for me to apply there. I guess not.</p>
<p>Yes, paying won’t really be a problem. My parents alone can pay, but I might receive aid from other family members so it’ll be alright.</p>
<p>Hmm, they mention Brown, UPenn, Stanford. How come? I thought I definitely did not stand a chance for those given the fact that the French system isn’t recognized.</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter if the financial aid is bad, as I said, unless tuition is outrageously expensive (superior to 65-70k per year). </p>
<p>But do the public NYC universities match NYU in terms of education and alumni networks?
I’ve seen that, apart from the Ivy League, the best alumni networks were Michigan’s, NYU’s, UVirginia’s, UT Austin’s… That’s why I’m looking at those. I’ve said it earlier - quality of education counts, of course, but opportunities for making connections that can later help me for finding a job or for finding investors are more important. I have heard that undergraduate years are the best years for making lots of connections, and therefore, getting into a school with a strong alumni network as an undergrad is my goal.
Now, I’ve been told that getting into a top program for a Master’s or an MBA isn’t quite as good in terms of opportunities. Do you think it’s true?
Will a guy with a bachelor’s from Harvard get as much recognition, but more importantly, make as much “friends” as a guy with a Master’s or an MBA (is there a major difference between the two) from Harvard BS?
Or I could just try Oxford/Cam, but as I said in another post, I don’t exacly know what they’re “worth” in regards to connections. I do know that they’re in the world top ten, but…</p>
<p>Never mind if CMU doesn’t give financial aid.
I’m going to have to see which ones of my target schools are public and which ones are private.</p>
<p>How can I see if a college has divisions?
As I said I’ll try do get S, but if I can’t, yeah, ES sp</p>
<p>“should I rather try private colleges or public universities? It’s kind of messed up, I don’t understand if I actually stand less chances in one or the other”</p>
<p>Not needing financial aid will be a big advantage when applying to most private and public schools. (Except the Ivy Leagues which attract a lot of applicants who can pay 100%.) So definitely, keep top public schools in mind (Berkeley, UCLA, North Carolina, Virginia, Michigan, Texas are all considered excellent public schools.) </p>
<p>“I thought I definitely did not stand a chance for those given the fact that the French system isn’t recognized.” American universities, especially the elite ones, are very familiar with the French school system, and they can easily assess your background. The French “system” won’t be a problem when it comes to getting into a good American university. </p>
<p>“Could you even compare some LACs to Harvard or Stanford?” Yes. There are many people who feel that schools such as Amherst or Williams will offer a BETTER academic experience for undergraduates, because they’re less focused on graduate students. (You also hear this about Princeton, which doesn’t have a graduate law, business or med school.) HOWEVER, most LACs won’t be as strong in CS as the big universities.</p>
<p>“Would it be completely stupid to get an undergraduate bachelor’s degree AFTER a LAC? Would it even be logical?” LACs award bachelor’s degrees. They’re not schools you go to prepare for other schools. They’re primarily educational institutions and are very small (around 2000 students total). </p>
<p>“I don’t know if they provide the same alumni networks, especially if I want to work in the US later.” Degrees from Oxbridge are very well regarded throughout the US, and their alumni network is probably extensive enough to offer you opportunities for work in the US. The UK university education is quite different to the one in the US.</p>
<p>“I thought I definitely did not stand a chance for those given the fact that the French system isn’t recognized.” The French system doesn’t make you a bad candidate, the difficulties lie in the ECs that the French school system doesn’t offer to the extent that schools in the US do. Do the things you enjoy doing outside of lycee - you don’t want to be a candidate with nothing interesting outside of your academic record.</p>
<p>If you don’t need financial aid, it’s a HUGE difference. The amounts you quote make you indeed able to pay full price : Publics and privates will be very happy to admit you if you have the stats. </p>
<p>LACs’ main purpose is to prepare you for top graduate school programs. If you have a Bachelor’s degree (from a LAC, National University, or Regional University), it’s highly unlikely that you’d be allowed to do a second one. Actually I don’t quite see the point… In any case, most programs don’t allow you to, especially if they’re prestigious. Either you’re good enough in college to go to grad school, or you must work and find a way to distinguish yourself professionally to get into a Master’s program, not try to bypass a poor college record by attempting a second BA. Of course with a CS major you can find work directly after a LAC or any school actually.</p>
<p>They’re much smaller than universities (once again, think pr</p>
<p>“So I can forget the “public Ivies” and all the other good public schools (such as Michigan) too?”
Well, I wouldn’t go that far, and the fact you’re full pay will affect things a bit. But when a school is mandated to have 70 or 75% of its accepted students be from in-state (like UNC-CH) or when a school has its class filled automatically 77% by “automatic admits” like UT-Austin, your odds aren’t as good as for instate students, obviously.Among internationals, the fact your parents can pay will tip the scales, but your application will have to stand on its own.
Look at this, for example:
[U.C.L.A</a>. Receives More Than 90,000 Applications for Fall 2013 - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/college-application-tally-2013/]U.C.L.A”>U.C.L.A. Receives More Than 90,000 Applications for Fall 2013 - The New York Times)
[7</a> of 8 Ivy League Schools Report Lower Acceptance Rates - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/ivy-league-college-admission-rates-2013/]7”>7 of 8 Ivy League Schools Report Lower Acceptance Rates - The New York Times)</p>
<p>You don’t have to decide <em>right now</em> whether you’ll apply undecided or CS major. However you should start going to websites and clicking “request information”. Ask for lots of brochures: after reading a few, you’ll see the commonalities, and you’ll be able to focus on 1° what makes each school different and 2° what YOU personally find appealing.</p>
<p>Slight addendum from above: being able to pay won’t change a thing for all schools that are need-blind, ie. Ivy League, MIT, top LACs…</p>
<p>Other schools for you to look into (for either straight CS or Comp Engineering, or both, depending on school)
Princeton
CalTech
HarveyMudd
Swarthmore
Williams
Johns Hopkins
Rice
Carleton
Olin
Cornell
Cooper Union
Washington U in St LOuis
Trinity
Oberlin
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
GATech
Tufts
Vanderbilt
Colgate
St Olaf
Grinnell
Rose Hulman
Cal Poly SLO (safety compared to CalTech)
Rensselaer</p>
<p>This should give you a good mix of schools to request information from.</p>
<p>You’re absolutely right that NYU is better than CUNY or SUNY. I was mentioning both because they’re in NYC or can be near NYC (depending on which SUNY) but much cheaper than NYU. However I’m not sure their alumni networks deserves to be considered TOP anything. NYU enjoys great prestige because it’s in NYC but in my opinion it’s nowhere near Ivy League/top LAC and its price is only justified by the city around it.</p>
<p>“In regards to what, education in itself or both education and people you get to know?”
Both.</p>
<p>“Oh so I should take the ACT? Is it significantly more difficult?”
It’s longer and covers more subjects (actually some schools consider that if you have the ACT you don’t need to take SAT Subjects). It’s relatively easier than the SAT <em>for French students</em>, not because the content it different (it’s the same level) but because the type of tasks and material is closer to what you’re used to. Also, wrong answers aren’t penalized.</p>
<p>reading the paper…
<a href=“Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine Start U.S.C. Program - The New York Times”>Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine Start U.S.C. Program - The New York Times;
Right up your alley!</p>