Applying to Ivies as a French high school student

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>@katliamom
Thank you, then I’ll also apply to public schools. How significant is this advantage of not needing financial aid? Can it really make the difference between admission and refusal?</p>

<p>Oh, they are familiar enough with our system? Okay. Then I won’t be disadvantaged when compared to American students even if my grades appear to be lower because of various differences between both educational systems?
Will they take my high school’s national rank (and therefore, competitivity) into account? </p>

<p>Okay. I’m getting some info about Amherst, Williams and other LACs, I’ll definitely apply to some of them, too.
I’ll also apply to Princeton, as it doesn’t consider 9th grade results when reviewing an application (this is a big plus, meaning that only my 10th grade results will look mediocre on the app instead of two consecutive years).</p>

<p>@ChickenLadder
Ah, alright, I didn’t understand. So Amherst, for example, will provide the same bachelor’s degree as, say, Columbia? There’s no difference between both degrees (apart from the school’s name)?</p>

<p>I see. More specifically, are Cam/Oxford well regarded in the tech/tech entrepreneurship sectors? This question’s vague, it doesn’t matter if you can’t answer it.</p>

<p>Yeah, ECs… But I thought it wasn’t about the number?
I mean, schools look at your degree of involvement, right? Not at the NUMBER of activities you’re doing.
If you’re simultaneously playing piano, baseball, basketball, belong to four clubs and lead two other associations, it’s supposed to not make you better (actually, I think it makes you less likely of getting in) than a student which has two or three interests but who pursues them as much as he can.
Isn’t it the case? Am-I completely mistaken?</p>

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<p>@MYOS1634
A huge difference, really? Good. That’s reassuring. What should I expect to pay for most colleges? 50K? Not counting food and all that stuff.
Publics AND privates? Aren’t publics less expensive?</p>

<p>Oh, okay! I thought LACs didn’t award the same bachelor’s degrees as other universities. I thought it worked exactly like pr</p>

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<p>@MYOS1634
Yeah, so to sum things up, my chances at public schools are reduced because in-state students come before me, but the fact that I’ll pay the tuition makes me more likely of getting in.
However, I don’t think it is the case for private schools, is it?</p>

<p>Yeah, I know that all Ivies (except Dartmouth) have lower acceptance rates… And it’s not only Ivies, I think other top schools report that too.
How does early admission affect my chances, though?</p>

<p>Okay. As I said, if I get into S, I won’t have to worry about applying CS or not. Furthermore, if CS isn’t in the school of engineering, there’s no problem at all.</p>

<p>Oh, too bad.
You sure that despite the fact that they describe themselves as need blind, they don’t give a slight edge to students who are able to pay?
I’m not talking about massive donations, by the way, that’s out of the question (unless donations don’t have to be that massive to be taken into account).</p>

<p>@MYOS1634
Wow, that’s a lot of schools, definitely won’t apply to all of those, I’ll see which ones seem to be the most attractive. They provide the top CS programs, is that it?
The ones I know are the following…</p>

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<p>Sorry if I didn’t point out all the other schools, I’ve heard about some of them but not enough to be really knowledgeable about what they offer. I’ll do my own research.</p>

<p>I see you didn’t mention either Harvard, Stanford or MIT (understandably). Does that mean that I stand slightly more chances if I apply to those you mentioned than if I applied to H/M/S?</p>

<p>Well, I don’t really care about the city. Obviously since tech entrepreneurship interests me, California would be ideal (hence Caltech), but it’s not going to be a decisive factor. I don’t care, as long as the environment is described as enjoyable and nice by students and that it’s not too dangerous/lost/whatever.
Oh, NYU’s alumni network isn’t actually that good? Surprising, I thought I saw it on some list.7</p>

<p>By the way, sorry if I can’t answer your PM for now, as I said, I don’t have enough messages on the forum yet.</p>

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<p>@MYOS1634
Both? Sounds good.</p>

<p>That looks like an advantage - SAT subject tests sound annoyingly difficult, just taking the ACT and being done with exams whatsoever sounds like a better plan.
Do you think that with 10th grade knowledge, I can take the ACT and hope to get a good grade? I’ve seen that some SAT II tests require knowledge about calculus, which I’m not supposed (I think) to know about until the end of 1re.
The type of tasks and material and errors aren’t penalized? You mean it’s not a multiple choice question test?</p>

<p>@MYOS1634</p>

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<p>you’re confusing SAT Subjects and APS. SAT subjects are very simple, they ony cover about 2-3 yearS. In terms of French curriculum, it’s what you’re supposed to know by the end of Seconde. The Language exams are at A2 level for example, meaning that if you’re really good at Spanish or German it’s the 3e level and if they’re your LV1 they’re a piece of cake. Math2= 2e, physics and chemistry would be closer to the beginning of S but first term only so if you’re in S you can try for a december test; English is obviously meant for native speakers who have had some language and literature courses so that I wouldn’t advise them unless you read in English and can buy a book like Discovering Literature (Anglais, Nathan). The history SATs are the trickiest since the syllabi are so different, you’d need to study from specific books, not just “review”.</p>

<p>Be careful, some schools do reqauire ACT+subjects, but if you check you’ll see that since ACT includes science and social studies many schools don’t require the subjects. Students do take subjects even if they’re required when they think they’ll do very well. :)</p>

<p>USc: to give it an edge. Stanford doesn’t need stars to raise money. USC has been trying to raise its profile and it’s worked (25 years ago it was known as a party school for rich kids, who wished it could rival UCLA. And now, they’re a true rival to UCLA, having overtaken it in many fields). And your answer is in your question, lots of startups come from there already. What’s the point in pouring more water into the pool? Better create a new program that will tap new talent.</p>

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<p>ACT covers 6e-2e, roughly 1/3 6e-5e, 1/3 4e-3e, 1/3 2e. The trick is to be quick and accurate. Practice is essential. </p>

<p>The schools I mentioned cover a wide variety of selectivity, location, campus type and environments, costs, “vibe”. Explore them - simply go to the website, click “request info”, and when you get the brochure, read it critically to see the common points between all the schools, the points that set them apart from each other, and which ones you like best.
Acquiring a guide such as Princeton review’s 377 best colleges, Insider’s guide to the colleges, Fiske Guide to colleges…
Your goal should be to have schools that are similar but on a decreasing order of selectivity. For example, Stanford, Caltech/HarveyMudd, Cal Poly would all have the same area in common but would be very different in selectivity. Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell would all be liberal arts schools with a strong engineering programs. (etc)</p>

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<p>“Then I won’t be disadvantaged when compared to American students even if my grades appear to be lower because of various differences between both educational systems?”
They can’t guess. They know the French baccalaureate is a very rigorous program but your counselor will have to provide a school profile, an explanation of the grading pattern, etc.</p>

<p>A BA is a BA.It’s a 4 year college degree. After a BA you may attempt an MA. You can’t pile up another BA on top of the 1st one, unless you’re a returning adult and your first BA was 20 years ago or something.
(MBA = for people who have worked already)
However the content of your degree and thus its worth depends on 1° the school (each school chooses what they require and they can offer whatever classes they want) and 2° the individual student: what is your GPA, have you done an internship, studied abroad, done summer research, been active and shown leadership skills on campus, etc… Also, what classes did you choose? What is your major, do you have a minor?
A guy from Anonymous State University with a 4.00, a Summer of Code internship, a summer research with a famous prof or entrepreneur, an entrepreneurship minor, who speaks several languages, who’s studied CS abroad, who’s participated in competitions and won… will win over a Harvard grad who has a 2.80 and nothing else.
College is what you make of it. The name of your school only takes you so far - you have to take advantage of every opportunity presented to you, and the more opportunities, the more you should do. Fewer opportunities + you manage to do impressive things = resourceful student so ++. Nevertheless, overall, a school with higher caliber students can offer more advanced classes which is better for all of them, and a school with more money can provide more opportunities to those who are willing to seize them.
Why are classes part of how you’re evaluated? Because you’ll have real choices. Therefore you’ll have to show expertise and well-roundedness, both advanced skills and “culture générale”: the exact proportions depend on the field you want to get into.
American colleges, outside of engineering, offer students incredible flexibility. Roughly 1/3 classes will be exactly required, 1/3 will be required general areas (ie you’ll have to study from certain broad areas but you’ll be free to choose what course: 1 course in history or philosophy or religion but you can choose your topic among dozens of offerings, you have to study a science but it can be environmental science, marine biology, astronomy, green chemistry, geometry in Islam, etc, etc) and 1/3 will be entirely free, so you can learn the guitar, explore a passion like photography, add a class in management, take more advanced classes in your major…
Compared to France where a lousy student from Polytechnique will always beat a fantastic student from Mines Alès, in the US, the weight given to individual achievement is greater than the weight given to “prestige”.</p>

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<p>@MYOS1634</p>

<p>So this means I can take both the SAT and the SAT Subjects at the end of seconde/beginning of 1re? That’s great.
A2 level seems feasible for Spanish, I’ve never been that good but I can do it.
So maths would be feasible too, I’d just have to prepare for Physics and Chem. I guess there are books to prepare for the SATs?
I won’t take english, then. I’ll take the TOEFL to prove that my level is decent.
I don’t have to take the History SATs, right? I just have to take Maths, Physics and Chem? And maybe Spanish? If I could just take Math/P-C, it would be great.</p>

<p>I’d have to look at the specific requirements, then… But to do that, I’d have to be absolutely sure of what universities I’ll send my applications to, so…
How many applications should I really send, regardless of the college requirements and admissions rates (reach, high reach, safety)? 10, 12 maybe?</p>

<p>Oh, okay. I thought USC was directly competing with UC Berkeley, given their low admissions rate.
New talent, huh. Isn’t it risky, since entrepreneurs often come from the same schools and this rarely chances (as far as I know)?</p>

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<p>@MYOS1634</p>

<p>Wow, so two thirds of ACT are supposed to be easy for me?
Yeah, practice… Do you think I’ll have the time to take SATs, SAT IIs, ACT, TOEFL and baccalaureate? It seems hard to me. Especially if I apply for the international baccalaureate (well my school doesn’t offer it, so should I even do it?)</p>

<p>Brochures? Sure, I’ll do that. I’m not looking for a vibe in particular, but it could be useful in narrowing down my choices.</p>

<p>Oh, yeah, I understand. Stanford being the highest reach and Cal Poly the safety, but the environment is similar, is that it?
I’m going to proceed like that, while trying to not apply to too many colleges.</p>

<p>Quick question, I’ve seen that Princeton’s ED rate was 18.2, while its RD rate was around 7.
Since it would be my highest goal/target school (well, there’s also Stanford, Caltech, etc, but either way), applying ED to it would give significantly increase my chances, right? Should I do it, or just apply regular or for early action?</p>

<p>18 percent is high for an Ivy, but I don’t know if I’d just waste my chances applying ED to such an elitist college instead of a slightly less difficult one such as Cornell (approx. 30 percent ED).</p>

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<p>@MYOS1634</p>

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<p>Yeah ok, I understand. Is it more prestigious to say “I attended [whatever] as an undergrad” than “I attended [whatever] for grad school”?
Do you need to be a buisness major to do an MBA? Are there any required years of experience or work context or something?</p>

<p>Hm, so everything counts. Minor? That’s a second subject you choose to study, right? Does it have to be related to the major, or can I study, like, CS as a major and chemical engineering as a minor? In addition to the major/minor, I can take other classes (buisness, entrepreneurship…) that are not related, right?</p>

<p>Yeah, I know that the name doesn’t guarantee everything. But if I get the chance to enter such a top university, I won’t miss any chances…</p>

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<p>What you’re telling me is, that if I get involved in everything (well, not literally) my school has to offer as an undergrad, it will be more valuable to employers/investors/etc, regardless of the name.
Individual achievement is greater than prestige… For recognition in terms of employment, yeah. I’d be thrilled to participate to research with people who are renowed experts in their fields, so it’s not a problem either way.
Does it work the same way for non-academic matters? Does your involvement really define the opportunities you’re going to get in terms of social relationships? For example, I thought fraternities at non-top schools could provide similar experience and let you meet the same people as if you went to <a href=“sorry%20if%20I’m%20being%20annoying%20with%20connections%20and%20stuff,%20but%20it’s%20important%20to%20me”>insert big name</a></p>

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<p>"So this means I can take both the SAT and the SAT Subjects at the end of seconde/beginning of 1re? "
YES
There’s one test in June but unless school is basically out for you, I wouldn’t go “cold”, it’s be a waste of money - you need to study. If school is out and you can practice daily it may be worth a shot, especially for the SAT Subjects since they’ll be fresh in your mind. You take 3 tests: based on what you said above, math2, spanish, and one more (physics or chemistry, then).
The syllabi (one syllabus = one program for the content of the exam => plural: syllabi, from the latin -us=>i)
[Chemistry</a> Subject Test - SAT Chemistry Practice Questions & Tests](<a href=“The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board”>The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board)
[SAT</a> Physics Subject Test - Physics Questions & Tests](<a href=“The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board”>The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board)
[Math</a> 2 - SAT Subject Test Math Level 2 Practice Questions](<a href=“The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board”>What were SAT Subject Tests? - College Board Blog)
[Spanish</a> SAT Subject Test - Spanish Practice Tests & Questions](<a href=“The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board”>What were SAT Subject Tests? - College Board Blog)
The questions are not difficult but you must be very fast: you have between 30 seconds and one minute per question… And of course when you’re fast, you can’t be inaccurate or make “stupid mistakes”.
So, if you the next 10 days to study and you can study 8-9 hours a day, you can call the exam centers and see if there’s space for you to take the test as a standby.
If not, I’d advise you wait till the beginning of the next school year.
You can send your scores to 4 (or is it 5 now?) colleges for free. So you should figure out which universities you’re sure you’ll be applying to and enter their “code” (number with 4 digits) when you take the test. For the other colleges, you’ll request the scores be sent later on, or your counselor can include them on your transcripts (some schools accept scores from the transcript).</p>

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<p>“How many applications should I really send, regardless of the college requirements and admissions rates (reach, high reach, safety)? 10, 12 maybe?”
You need to have a good variety of reaches, matches, and safeties. There should be at least 2-3 safeties, ie schools where you are in the top applicants (when you look at the 25-75% range, you’re above the highest scores), that you like and wouldn’t mind attending, and that you can afford. Those are extremely important.
All reaches that accept fewer than 25% students cannot “count” as one, since they’re totally unpredictable (ie, “wild cards”). You might be lucky and get in, but you probably won’t. This is further complicated by the fact you’re international but at least you’re full pay so outside need-blind schools you’ll have a slight advantage.
(Need blind = they do not see your financial papers at all. They only see your application. If they think you deserve to be admitted, then the financial aid office must make it work financially. That’s why there are so few need blind schools for international students. That also means the fact you’re full pay will NOT help you at all the top schools since they do not know and do not care that you can pay. They just want the most brilliant minds in the world.)
For an international student, 12 + the wild cards sounds right, but NOT 12 including the wild cards. (12= 6 matches including a mix of public and private, 3 reaches, 3 safeties)</p>

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<p>“Isn’t it risky, since entrepreneurs often come from the same schools and this rarely chances”
That is incorrect actually.
(That assumption is probably why brilliant kids go to the US instead of staying in France where they either have no shot at the handful of schools , and why France is having problems, even though it does have many innovators. I know of several examples where the French fascination for grandes </p>

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<p>I’ll try answering more of your questions.
“Yeah, practice… Do you think I’ll have the time to take SATs, SAT IIs, ACT, TOEFL and baccalaureate?”
We won’t say it enough: practice is essential. :slight_smile:
You’re trying to get into 1S, so you’ll have all of next year then for any back ups the Fall of your Term (with CS option I suppose? If you haven’t thought about it, I strongly suggest it).
Make a planning and stick to it. Expect to take the TOEFL and the ACT twice.
SAT IIs (those mentioned, specifically) you can take in a week if you can study for them, or in October. They’ll be the easiest since they’ll all be subjects you know well.
You can shoot for a TOEFL in September (after studying in the summer) to establish a base score and have a score you can send to your “safeties” (they shouldn’t require a score as high as the others - depending on the university, it could go from 61 to 100 although most want 79 or 80.)</p>

<p>“Especially if I apply for the international baccalaureate (well my school doesn’t offer it, so should I even do it?)”
I don’t think you should, unless you can afford a private school and prepare the IB curriculum instead (IB is NOT OIB). IB and French bac are both well considered, the difference is that IB has no fili</p>

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<p>“Stanford being the highest reach and Cal Poly the safety, but the environment is similar, is that it?”
yes, exactly! :slight_smile:
You Find a combination of schools that are alike on factors important to you, from most difficult to get into (reach) to easiest to get into (safety) and you apply to them.
Also, look on the commonapp website: many schools do NOT require a fee if you apply online or through CommonApp.
Go to “member colleges” then “requirements” then “show: all”</p>

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<p>Brochures: American students are inundated with them.
Unfortunately, International students have to request them. And that’s good, because it means you actually go look at a website, familiarize yourself with the school a little bit, and show initiative.
They’re actually quite useful: they tell you what the school finds important about itself and if you read them side by side you can see how they’re distinctive (or not). This is also good to prepare for your interviews and/or to ask the International Rep (thus, demonstrating interest).You’ll quickly see that in American colleges it never rains, classes never take place in a big lecture halls, students are always happy and never engage in consuming alcohol. Then you see patterns emerge, common points between all universities (you can question: how are they the same or different? by asking for details), common points between the schools you like or dislike… It also helps you figure out what you really like, what you’d kinda like but wouldn’t be a deal breaker, and what doesn’t matter. It teaches you some reading skills and if you observe how the brochures are designed you can get a few marketing tips.
“Request information” and/or “join our mailing list” are always free :slight_smile: so don’t waste this useful tool.</p>

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<p>Hi there, sorry to jump in but I think someone here could help me understand better. I just want to know if AP Chemistry or AP Physics are difficult for French students who are currently at the 1er S? Are there any difficulties to study AP Chemistry or AP Physics for Lycee students?</p>

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<p>There are two AP Physics classes. One, Physics C, requires calculus (analyse). It’s much harder than Physics B and similar to what you’d have in your first year engineering course for example. Physics B may be more appropriate for 1S. However if you’re sp</p>

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<p>Thank you for your advice!</p>