<p>Thanks for the feedback. DS is currently interested in Marine biology and/or Med school. I think I will strongly suggest that he wait till 12th grade to take APES and focus on the AP English, AP bio and APUSH for Jr year. It’s enough!</p>
<p>You really have to know your kid. Our mistake was letting our son load up every year on honors, AP and college courses. He took AP World History his sophomore year and did very well, so he decided to load up on three APs for his junior year. He aced APUSH and did very well on Language & Comp. Taking AP Biology was a mistake, though he has no interest in a science major and struggled (for him) in 10th grade Advanced Chemistry, and despite having a great teacher he did poorly on his Bio exam. Despite these warning signs, he insisted on taking two more APs this year and also a college-level course offered by the school. Now, he is just exhausted from working a part-time job, his ECs and his schoolwork (and, truth be told, just ready to be done with high school) and hes just doing what he has to in order to get past these exams. In retrospect, I wish he had taken a somewhat less demanding courseload for his senior year and done well in all of his classes rather than overload himself and struggle so much.</p>
<p>My wife and I have learned our lesson, though, and we will look at the course selection process with a much more critical eye when our DD enters high school. I will not make the mistake in letting her take an AP course if she hasnt shown that she can master the honors-level courses that precede it, and we will carefully consider all of her activities, both in school and out. We have to allow these kids to just be a teenager sometimes.</p>
<p>I echo jingle’s comments. </p>
<p>My DS1 took a full load of APs as a senior, and had scores of 5s and one 4 on all the exams, though he carried a C in BC calc, and Bs in the other classes all year. His admissions results were disappointing when compared to the cohort in his HS that took only honors, with weighted grades equal to his grades and a tremendously less intense workload. Simply stated, the level of rigor of APs when compared to honors was simply not clear - I do not believe - to the adcoms - nor made clear by the GC at his school.</p>
<p>Fast forward and his college experience where he landed has been smooth, and frankly, academically ‘easy’ when compared to HS. Those peers that took the honors route have struggled in college. So, I guess, if learning is the objective, DS1’s route was the correct one. But, I can say it leaves me circumspect when thinking about DS2. </p>
<p>It is not the ‘number’ of AP classes, but the relative intensity of the workload that counts. DS1 found APUSH to be relatively workable (he has a very good memory) but APLIT to be tough (he reads slowly, and the sheer volumne of material was tremendous). It may pay to look at the class schedule to determine the workload.</p>
<p>Thanks all for your thoughtful replies!</p>
<p>I just need some confidence in “know your child” best.</p>
<p>As a 9th grader her has 2 honors classes, a dual college class, 2nd year Latin and 2 “regular” classes. Time management with school & his ECs has been very difficult for him this year. </p>
<p>His school is set up so that APUSH is a 2 year class (10th & 11th) because of NJ state requirement for 2 years US History. Technically only 11th is marked on transcript as AP, but I think he needs to keep in mind the 10th grade year is taught just as intensely. </p>
<p>He would love to take AP Psych, but the teacher is known to be extremely difficult.</p>
<p>I’d rather he take a summer community college class then overload his school year schedule. I just don’t want him burning out before high school is even over :)</p>
<p>For AP’s taken before senior year, make sure that later courses in the same subject are challenging as well. e.g., After taking BC Calculus as a junior don’t take “math for contemporary living” as a senior. It doesn’t look good on a transcript.</p>
<p>My son is like Jingle and anothermom3’s. He is my third child but will not listen to my advice about how to balance AP/honors classes in regard to maximizing GPA and down time for quality of life and college admissions. He is insistant on taking for his junior year next year AP Calculus AB, AP Physics B, AP English Language, AP Spanish Language, and AP Chemistry along with honors American History and honors marine science. This is going to be a killer workload but, my son is positively thrilled with the prospect. He says that he knows his GPA may suffer but this is the workload that he wants, he love to learn and wants to be in these classes. I believe he will be really ready for college in two years however, he will probably not get into the colleges that he would have, had he taken a more balanced workload. I have explained this to him and still, he does not care (he says), he wants to take these very difficult classes. I wish that we lived in an area/hs district where the kids could take just 3 AP’s and have the GC still check the “most rigorous” box on the rec forms but unfortunately here, 5 AP’s Junior year/5 senior year is the requisite for that designation (which fuels the AP arms race amongst his peers (the top 5% of the class). I really am worried about burnout here.</p>
<p>The correct way to play the game is to shoot for straight 'A’s in HS; the more rigor the better, but not at the expense of the 'A’s. Avoid elective topics the kid is not interested in.</p>
<p>Oh, and leave time for a slow and steady SAT study routine. In our house it was about an hour a day for about 1/2 of each summer, starting one year before the PSAT in 11th grade. My kids took the PSAT twice, the SAT once.</p>
<p>seiclan, that is an extremely heavy workload. </p>
<p>D took 3 AP’s her sophomore year: Chemistry, Psychology and Euro. Junior year she took 4: Language, USH, Bio and Calc AB. Senior year 6: APES, French Language, Gov’t, Lit, Calc BC and Stats. Plus other honors courses each year. </p>
<p>By the end of her senior year, she definitely experienced some burnout. No question. But they were all courses she enjoyed (for the most part) and have been of value in college. I would second what other posters have said: know your child.</p>
<p>You really need to talk to your guidance counselor to see what those schools will expect from students at your school. My kids’ school offers 2 dozen APs and a full IB program. I have one child at a top lac who took around 9APs across the board at our top public (Eng, calc, chem, foreign lang, soc studies). This was not enough to check off “most challenging” at our school. Nevertheless, kiddo was accepted at plenty of top LACs (not Amherst, despite applying ED) but had really good extracurriculars and is also a URM. I think student from their school would need IBs or more than 3-4 APs.</p>
<p>Seiclan, my daughter took a Junior case load similar to your sons. She managed 'A’s in our grade inflated school, but skipped the AP-Chem test at the end of the year. Of the classes your son is taking, I think the AP-Chem and AP-Spanish (for non-native speakers) tests are the most difficult, and the ones to think about skipping if the going gets difficult.</p>
<p>Find out how the highschool determines who qualifies for the most rigourous check mark on the counselor recomendation form. At my kids’ highschool they had to take 7 APs/IBs or the full IB diploma to get that box checked - that’s on the high side but at least half the class did that. It would be a shame to be one short if it doesn’t require much extra effort to take a class that fits their interests.<br>
Both my HS grads took AP US in grade 10 and it was a very difficult class but a very rewarding experience and a good introduction to AP classes by just having ONE in the schedule.</p>
<p>I don’t worry about getting the ‘Most Difficult’ box checked – My son is at a VERY small private school & we got a good bit of aid because son boosts test numbers & is often used for marketing purposes (i.e. – “even 9th graders can take Dual Enrollment courses”)</p>
<p>– I’m MORE concerned that the counselor & dean don’t see the whole picture & my son burning himself out. This year was not easy - many meltdowns.</p>
<p>That is why I wanted a parent perspective – I don’t want him burning out, but I also don’t want to discourage him from being challenged.</p>
<p>I do see burn-outs of my 2 kids already due to the high stress of APs and the determination to improve GPAs if they score 4 or 5. My older D is already off to Pomona this fall, yet in her senior year she took (last exam was today) 3 APs - Calc BC, Studio Art and Gov. My other D, a Jr. took 2 APs as a sophomore (Bio-5 and APEH-4), 2 APs as a Jr (Chem and Calc AB), and plans 2 APs in her Sr yr, for a total of 6. </p>
<p>I will say that indeed 4-5 APs should be OK, and if the kid scores 4s and 5s in all of these, they should be plenty good enough to impress the top LACs. My D is going to a top LAC - Pomona, but she will have completed a total of 6 APs, including her senior yr. As everyone had pointed out, APs are just a smidgen of the many achievements for entering Colleges, and if they do just enough while balancing things out… should be OK.</p>
<p>Something to keep in mind, and I think someone might have mentioned it but I’m not sure. It depends on how mature he is, but also if he really likes the school system and how things are taught. Let me explain that last bit; I went through most of my high school career hating the way classes were taught. I love learning, but I hate learning at a snail’s pace just because others can’t keep up. You might think wow, a typical CC student. I wouldn’t say so, because although I really only have a passion for mathematics and physics, I took a lot more than just those. In total, I took around 11 or so, and more than half were in my senior year. That being said, I loved the learning experiences I had senior year; this is what I had been waiting for. Even classes like literature and history (which I feel are sort of …less than useful, let’s say) I had a lot of fun in because I was actually learning. The other general/advanced/honors classes didn’t give me the feeling of actually learning a significant amount. I feel as though I’m a person who will really enjoy the academic side of college, because being babied like in high school classes was something I very much hated. Sure AP classes are challenging, but in my opinion getting ready for college-style academics is great, as well as learning at a fast pace and establishing a good work ethic.</p>
<p>So if your son loves to learn and can handle the difficult work (you may get lucky like I did and get a lot more learning and not so much ‘busy work’ like some here have described), then I say sign him up for as many as he’s interested. I think people overrated AP classes, and they’re lots of fun! You just have to keep consistent with your studying habits. For APUSH, read a bit everyday. For Physics, learn how things work. For Calculus, also learn how things work and WHY. For Economics, just go through hypothetical problems till the logic makes sense. Besides, you can always drop if you feel that you’re not up to it.</p>
<p>hadsed - thanks for your great advice! We do have 1 small problem and that is he can’t “drop” unless he is really doing miserable in the class – That is our trade-off for a small school - no flexibility to change classes.</p>
<p>Honestly, I think he may make his decision based more upon the teacher than the subject - he has until Tuesday to turn in his schedule request. We (parents) helped him narrow down his choices to 3 classes to fill his “open” slot - 2 are AP (Psych or Govt) & one is Art ( a subject he is very passionate about, so it will not be a “blow off” for him & it will meet his art requirement toward graduation).</p>
<p>oclement – Your post makes me relax – Pomona is one of his dream schools (we affectionately call it the “Puppy School” since we 1st heard of it the year puppies came to campus to relieve finals stress) and learning your daughter didn’t have to take 10 APs to get in is wonderful.</p>
<p>I don’t know if you should risk it, but a lot of schools have policies that can be… bent by parental involvement. Of course, you can’t know how afraid they are of you unless you’ve heard about a few instances where the school backed down when a parent was involved. For example, there are “prerequisite” classes that are required for some AP maths and advanced maths, but they could easily be circumvented by a complaining parent.</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
<p>I took:</p>
<p>Soph: AP World History</p>
<p>Junior: AP English Comp, AP Psych, AP Art History, APUSH (and self-studied AP Human Geo)</p>
<p>Senior: AP MacroEcon, AP US Government, AP English Lit, AP Stats, AP Bio, AP Euro</p>
<p>It was a lot of APs, yes, but I still had a life outside of them, and it was really nice to only have to take two gen ed courses in college–it gave me a lot more flexibility in my schedule, which, IMO, made it really worth it.</p>
<p>The only way to figure out which APs to take is within the context of your own school. My 2 dds went to a large urban high school with a huge range of students. The AP classes were really the only challenging classes offered. The “Honors” level classes were filled with students who really didn’t care much about school. </p>
<p>The top students typically took 10 or 11 total, without self-studying. They take one their freshman year, two their sophomore year, and 3 or 4 a year after that.</p>
<p>The only way to know how much time your kid will need to spend studying is to talk to students and parents a year or two ahead of you. For example, at our school, APES is a very time-consuming class. It is only a semester-long college course spread over two semesters and the material is not considered too difficult to learn. But, the teacher assigns a ton of work, which many students consider to be “busy work.” </p>
<p>AP world history is one of the easiest classes at the school. Many students get an A but don’t pass the AP exam! To get a 5 on the exam, you must do a lot of indenpendent study.</p>
<p>This is the kind of info that will help your child figure out what is too heavy a load.</p>
<p>^
Yes, these things really do vary by school! AP World History was one of the hardest classes in my HS… The teacher told us on the very first day that that his job was to show us that “even really smart kids could fail,” and boy, did he!</p>
<p>…But for the most part, we all did very well on the AP exam.</p>
<p>In our HS, a student needs to take probably 8 or 9 APs (including at least 2 maths, 2sci and Lit) to be considered taking the most challenging curriculum. Kids are expected to take at least 5 core subjects each year; top kids take 6 or 7 academic classes per yr so taking 6-9 APs is workable for top students. 6-7 APs is a tough schedule but not enough to be considered the most challenging. APs are MUCH more demanding timewise than honors classes. It’s tough to get all the work done (unless school is a kid’s only activity). Some classes, like Chem, assign 10 hrs of homework a week.</p>
<p>Some top students wind up taking 1 AP in 10th grade (my son had to petition to take Bio in 10th grade; now it’s a more acceptable request). They take probably 2-3 APs in 11th grade and then 3-5 in 12th grade. Taking 4 or 5 APs at once is tough, but works ok for the kids who naturally retain most info they see. That schedule is almost impossible for the kid who in April/May has to “relearn” info taught in the fall. There’s simply no time to study. I’d say my kids spent maybe a day “studying” for each of their AP/SATII exams.</p>
<p>I’m amazed to read about kids studying for hours each day, for weeks leading up to the exams. Our kids are still learning new material the week before the exams. Still doing hours of homework every night. Still taking regular tests. There simply isn’t time to set aside for test prep… Then again, all my kids were heavily involved in ECs. Life doesn’t stop during AP testing. There are still track meets, clubs, volunteering and other commitments. Some kids have jobs. My current HS junior is taking Chem, Stats and US Hist. She found it tough while playing 3 sports but she doesn’t want to give up sports.</p>
<p>I support her doing ECs she enjoys. Kids need some time to decompress, whether it’s through sports or the arts or whatever. My DD intends to take 5 APs next year (and 2 foreign languages) but I’m hoping she comes to her senses and cuts back when she sees the workload. Our kids usually start school after Labor Day and miss quite a few (snow) days, so they are always behind schedule it seems. But that’s just the way it is.</p>