<p>I know multiple threads re APs is on the forums, but as I help my son plan his 10th grade schedule I wanted the parent perspective.</p>
<p>My son's school offers 9 APs in a 2 year cycle (2 science, 1 math, 2 English, 1 art, 1 computer, the remainder history/govt).</p>
<p>My son has a few ECs that require heavy time commitment.</p>
<p>My son has consistently (for over 5 years) stated he does not want to go into the sciences. Instead of AP Bio or AP Chem he will take Honor's Physics in 11th grade - this leaves only senior year for an AP science.</p>
<p>He has no inclination to self study an AP -- He currently sees no point - that may change in the future, but given his ECs let's assume it won't.</p>
<p>He is limited to 3 AP classes each year given the way his small school is structured.</p>
<p>He will take at LEAST 2 AP courses his 11th grade year and 2 his senior year for a total of 4 minimum.</p>
<p>He can take 1 AP his 10th grade year if he chooses. </p>
<p>SO -- IN THE PARENT OPINION</p>
<ol>
<li><p>How many AP courses is "enough" for college admin if he has his hopes set on "really strong" LACs - Pomona, Pitzer, Colorado College, Williams...</p></li>
<li><p>How many AP courses is "too much" his 12th grade year given a typical male student (who procrastinates, must work and will want some down time)?</p></li>
<li><p>Do you think the college admin cares about APs (based on your childs college admin results)? If he takes a mix of honors classes and 4 or 5 APs is this "good" enough assuming he scores 3-5 on the APs and the GPA is in line with the colleges he is considering?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I don't want him to overload in any given year and worry a mis-step in 10th grade could effect college choices. I also worry that all these self-study kids on CC are giving my family a skewed view of expectations.</p>
<p>I don’t know that there’s an answer to this. LACs want to see that he’s challenged himself, but they’re going to look at the whole picture. IMO, two time consuming ECs plus 2 APs out of a possible three per year sounds like he’s doing exactly that. Also IMO he should only take AP classes in things he’s interested in and will be willing to work hard at.</p>
<p>It is a question of maturity and time management. Some kids are simply not ready for the AP Euro exam in spring of 10th grade. It is literally impossible for a teacher to cover all the material which may be on the exam, so the student will need to spend some time studying material not covered in the class itself. AP classes can involve amazing amounts of busy work, writing, and homework, and the last month before the exams needs to be spent in review. I would think that 2-3 classes would be the limit for someone with EC, although there are exceptions in both directions. Remember that college applications for someone on CC may be the equivalent of another class in senior year!</p>
<p>The sky is the limit for Pomona and Williams. Of course, he needs to be an athlete for Williams as well. Good luck!</p>
<p>If you’ve read other threads on this subject you know that the “right” number of APs is highly school dependent. If everyone else is taking 12 AP’s and you “only” take take 6 you look like a slacker. But if you are at a school where few people take more than 3 or 4 and you take 6, you look great. So with that caveat…</p>
<p>At our school, which offers 24 APs, I think the top students aiming at Ivies generally take 8 to 10. Generally 1 or 2 as sophomores, 2 to 3 as juniors, and 3 to 5 as seniors. My younger son (more relaxed than my older son) did not have too much trouble taking one as a sophomore (World), two as a junior (US History and Biology) and three as a senior (Calc BC, Physics C and AP Euro). He got into Tufts, U Chicago and Vassar. Not sure how those acceptance rates compare to the school you mentioned. </p>
<p>Personally I don’t really believe that the average sophomore is really capable of doing college level work, but my son did very well in AP World and it was not an impossible amount of work. (World history is already a two year course in the NYS curriculum, so they’d had the first half of the course already, albeit at a less intense level.) What AP might he take sophomore year? Is it something that interests him and/or that he is good at?</p>
<p>You might want to pose your first question to your child’s GC and you might want to ask other students if there is a big difference in work load between AP and honors courses. At our school only some of the AP courses are much more difficult or at least more time consuming.</p>
<p>^^Mine took AP classes in the areas that interested them. Mine are not math-y and while taking the standard college prep math curriculum taking algebra in 8th grade which they had to test into and so on…did not take a Math AP which was fine with me.</p>
<p>Most college swill be looking at the entire picture, so there’s no “magic number” of APs that they’re looking for. Since his school offers 9 AP courses top LACs will want to see that he’s taken some of what’s offered, especially in areas where he appears to be academically strong. </p>
<p>I 100% agree that he should only take APs in the subjects that most interest him. It’s hard enough to get motivated for these courses, it’s total misery if it’s a subject that you dislike or don’t feel confident in. If he struggles in or shows little interest in his science classes, then not taking an AP science isn’t going to kill his chances with colleges and it will probably make him a lot better and give him more energy for the classes he does do well in. But he should then take the Honors Science courses. </p>
<p>Every kid is different, but I honestly think that taking more than 3-4 AP classes at a time is overdoing it. Of course it also depends on the class, not all AP courses at all schools are equally challenging and time consuming, even if their goal is to get kids ready for the same test.</p>
<p>Yes, college admissions care about AP’s. They use them to gauge the level of challenge of the curriculum. The school report (what the guidance counselor sends) will show how many AP’s the school offers so they’ll be able to see what % of available AP’s your son took. </p>
<p>D took 1 AP in 10th grade (I think the HS might have only allowed 1 for sophomores), 3 in 11th grade & 5 in 12th grade plus plenty of EC’s. She doesn’t have the best study habits but definitely “grew into” the AP mode & curriculum. It’s interesting to watch as she’s taking AP exams (this week & next) – it really does resemble college finals. </p>
<p>There are kids in her school that take more – all hers were English/For. Lang/Soc St/History – she took no math or science AP’s (although she probably could have done AP Bio).</p>
<p>Her results? She applied to 6 national universities, ranked from top 30 - 90 and got in to 5, including her highest reach. But AP’s aren’t the whole picture – she had a very specific focus and some interesting hooks (study abroad, studied 4 languages) </p>
<p>AP’s played at least a partial decision in her final selection as she did look at how each school handled AP credit. Assuming expected results on this year’s exams, she should receive almost a full year’s credit and credit for several GE courses. That will give her significant flexibility when it comes to double majoring, study abroad, etc.</p>
<p>I would talk to the guidance counselor, the teachers and the student. In our HS, there’s one day when the students get the course recommendation for the following year from their core subject areas. I rely heavily on that, but I also know my student. I specifically do NOT go to AP NIGHT, where the school pushes, pushes, pushes (because it looks good for them). It’s about my student. Period.</p>
<p>S could take one AP next year (AP World), but he’s a science kid and the honors global course will be fine for him. Get an A in the honors global class and then focus in areas that he is interested in. However, having experience in AP Lang from my D, I know that S can handle that junior year so, as long as next year’s honors teacher is fine with it, he will do the AP Lang in 11th grade - and then look toward AP in math and sciences when the school allows.</p>
<p>D had 4 AP classes (AP Lang, AP Art Hist, AP Lit and AP Envir Sci) – was not applying to top LACs, but she did get into nearly all the schools she applied to. Her other classes were nearly all honors and she was well-rounded. The honors econ and govt classes, which she should have taken this year, did not fit into her schedule. Her choice was to take AP in both or be “on-level.” Since these are not areas she is interested in, I didn’t push AP. It’s senior year. I think they could have been a real downer for her (and her GC wrote in her admissions rec that she should have been in honors but there were sked conflicts). I know people here may have pushed the AP, but you have to know your kid. That’s what it comes down to.</p>
<p>So there was one parent who actually had a conversation with me last summer to the effect that her S’s APs were better than my D’s APs. Oh God. I wasn’t getting into it. I still want my kids to enjoy their teen years. Take the hardest classes for their ability, work hard, etc.</p>
<p>I don’t know if this is helpful because we don’t have the “top LAC” experience (yet), but I wanted to share my opinion…(for whatever that’s worth!).</p>
<p>Great thread! I’m concerned that my son is going to take too many APs next year. I’d love to hear some feed back. He is taking AP World History this year as a Sophmore. He really likes the class and is doing well. The AP test is next week, so we’ll see how he does. He is doing very well in the practice tests. Next year he wants to take:</p>
<p>AP English (I think this is the Language one)
AP Bio
AP US History
AP Environmental Science</p>
<p>I think this is too much. I’m trying to convince him to take APES in his senior year along with Physics. He is not in an AP Calc track. He could take AP Chem, but would prefer APES. Are these 4 APs in his junior year too many? Did anyone’s child take this kind on load and still had time for a life?</p>
<p>I think AP Bio AND AP ES in the same year is a lot. Especially if it’s not neccessary (meaning that he can take the AP ES in snior year) and particularly if he’s going from 1 AP class to 4 in a sudden upward trajectory. </p>
<p>AP English in 11th grade is usually not terribly challenging if you’re already a decent English student, and APUSH is difficult, but most kids find it really interesting and relatable and it at least covers some of the subjects you’ve studied before in school. AP Bio can be the real bear in this mix, there’s so much material to cover and it can prove to be very difficult. </p>
<p>Unless there’s some really urgent reason why he has to take AP ES as a junior, then I say it’s neccessary to make yourself crazy. 3 APs is plenty. Then he can choose between Chem and Bio as a senior. </p>
<p>geogirl: that’s a solid load for a junior but not unmanageable. In my daughter’s HS, AP Eng & USH are pretty much requisite for the competitive college bound juniors and then they add on depending on interests & abilities.</p>
<p>We were told by a college coach that env. science and human geography are considered “weak” AP courses, not likely to carry much weight in the eyes of admissions comm. Not sure if that’s true or not but something to think about.</p>
<p>My D took 3 each of her Jr and Sr year…
Jr: APES (environmental), APUSH (us history), APE (english)
Sr: AP Euro (history), AP Engl lit and AP STAT</p>
<p>I’m also not a firm believer in over APing…they are stressed enough and still need to have a life and get some sleep. It also takes maturity to take an AP as a freshman or sophomore, something that a lot of boys may not have as much as girls…thus there is some concern about the imbalance of genders in AP classes at the earlier grades, especially since at many schools it’s the non-science/math APs that are offered to the younger students.</p>
<p>I do agree students should take what they are interested in. My S is planning on taking APES and AP Psyc his Jr. year as that is where his interest lies (at the moment). At their HS, they must take APE and APUSH together their Jr. year, not just one or the other.</p>
<p>My D will have two AP’s next year as a junior - AP English Language and APUSH.
She will have honors Enviornmental Science and regular Pre Calc. She is not a math and science kid so she is not going to take AP’s in those subjects. She is a competitive horseback rider (hunter jumpers) which is a time intensive EC and she rides well enough that she is looking to compete in college. She is also a page editor for the school newspaper.</p>
<p>I think that D will have enough challenges with the two AP’s. She is my kid that takes a bit longer to get her work done, but is still a straight A student.</p>
<p>Reading between the lines, this is telling me that College Board sees a large number of high school students who are taking fewer than six AP tests over their high school careers. If those students read that colleges will be impressed with up to five AP courses, they’re now going to be thinking that they need to step up their game. That’s a lot of new test fees for CB to harvest. Hey, where’s the cynical smiley when you need it?</p>
<p>Not to mention the case of the students attending schools where taking large number of AP courses is the norm. Those Adcoms might be saying that 3-5 AP courses are sufficient, but if they see a kid who has 3 AP courses while classmates had 6, 9, whatever, all with similar GPAs, well, all other things being equal, we know how that admissions decision shakes out.</p>
<p>APES may be considered a “weak” AP by some GC, but it can be a real time sink when taught well and thoroughly. There are innumerable discussion questions and essays in the homework and quite a lot of reading. Don’t double up this class with another AP science unless you have a student with great time management skills. APES + APUS is quite enough! If the senior physics is non-AP, APES would be complementary (AP Physics C + APES would be tough, just due to time commitment). Seniors with 3 AP classes (including science and math) already would be ill-advised to take on the workload for APES.</p>
<p>If you are really shooting for Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona or HYPS, you should talk to your guidance counselor to see what would be expected to get the “Most Demanding” course selection box checked on the secondary school report. As others have said, it varies by school. Our experience is that 6-7 APs was enough at a very strong suburban N. New Jersey public for our son to be accepted at several top 10 LACs.</p>
<p>My son may have taken too many APs–too many, that is, to look super-impressive to tippy-top schools. He took AP World History in his sophomore year, liked it, and so in his junior year, with his teachers’ encouragement, signed up for AP calculus AB, Computer Science AB, American History, English Language, and Chemistry, plus 4th year Spanish and 2nd year Japanese. Although he got 5s in all the exams, his junior year grades were a mix of mostly As but some Bs, with the effect that in his large, competitive high school his GPA (3.6 UW, 4.5 W) dropped from the first decile to the second decile of his class. His school gives extra weight to AP classes, but also to honors classes, which are quite a lot easier to do well in. Apparently the way to maximize your GPA there is to take mostly honors classes with just enough AP thrown in to make you look ambitious.</p>
<p>Also, because of the workload, my son decided to drop off the varsity swim team, where he had lettered in his freshman and sophomore year. </p>
<p>Despite high SAT scores and solid ECs/essays, my son was rejected at two Ivies and MIT but accepted at UVA, where he has already been taking classes this year and would probably have chosen to attend anyhow. He might have been rejected in any case, of course, but I believe his low (relatively speaking) AP grades may have hurt him with admissions committees. On the other hand, he had a more challenging/interesting experience in high school, and is better prepared for college, than if he had stuck with “honors track” classes. He is happier in a situation where he is a bit overstimulated even if he is not entirely mastering all the material. I may advise my daughter, now in her first year of HS, to be a little more cautious than her brother was, both because she is more of a perfectionist and because I now have a better sense now of what admissions committees might be considering.</p>
<p>Regarding Environmental Science being a weak AP, I second what astrodeb said. My Junior D is taking both AP ES and AP US, along with AP Eng and AP Psych and it is a lot of work. US and ES both require a significant amount of reading as well as writing, which is very time consuming. She chose Environmental Science over AP Bio because of her strong interest in environmental issues, so she really loves the class. I think have AP Bio would have pushed her right over the edge! As far as the number of APs to take, in my d’s school, the top 10% usually take 1 freshman yr, 1 soph, 4 junior and 4 senior year. Magnet program kids have 2 dual enrollement classes also. Guidance counselor told my daughter that to be considered as “most rigorous courseload” for college, she should take 8 APs.</p>