High School Courses

<p>Hello all,</p>

<p>I am new to this forum. Have a question. Our son is a sophomore in a good public school, which sends some students to the top universities including Ivy. Likewise his dream list consists of MIT, Caltech, Cornell, Rice, Duke, U of Ill Urbana-Champaign and U of Mich. He likes to study biomed or chemical engineering in undergrad and then MD/PhD.</p>

<p>Our son is taking band, French and debate together with other courses. He has been taking French since the beginning of elementary, band from the first year of middle school and debate since Freshman, and likes to continue them all the way to senior year. However, if he does so, we found that he will miss AP Physics OR AP Chemistry AND AP Calculus BC. He is a straight A student since middle school. </p>

<p>My question is given all other things like EC, leadership, SAT score equal, how do the top tier universities look at the courses - will they prefer consistency in courses like what he plans or rigorous courses. </p>

<p>All other science, math, social science and English courses he is taking are, where available, either honors or AP, and we expect he will complete at least 4 AP courses and 5 honor courses. </p>

<p>Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks..</p>

<p>I wonder if he could continue to enjoy debate and compete on the debate team without taking debate as a class. If so, he could free up a class period for AP chem. Based on his potential majors/career interests, it seems like it would be ideal if he took both AP physics and AP chem. I don’t know that it matters whether he takes Calculus BC if he takes AB. I do think that colleges prefer for students to take four years of foreign languages. If
your school offers challenging enough French classes, he should continue in French. If he is already AP level, he might take the AP and be done or start a new language. If he wants to participate in band in college, it would be best for him to continue. If not, he might not want to continue for four years. JMHO</p>

<p>What does your son <em>want</em> to do? Don’t plan his whole high school career based on what a college admissions officer <em>might</em> want. Does he like band? debate? French? then stick with them. </p>

<p>How do you know he wouldn’t be able to take AP Physics or Chem? Is it a rules issue? A scheduling problem? Schedules and policies have a tendency to change from year to year, especially in public schools whose budgets may be affected by changes in tax revenues. </p>

<p>He could also self-study for the AP French test if he wanted to. Although he sounds plenty busy as it is.</p>

<p>Apollo6 and Lafalum84,
Many thanks for replies. </p>

<p>As Apollo6 says we will inquire if he can participate in debate without enrolling the course. This will free up for AP Physics and he will take AP Chem also. Thanks for suggestion, appreciated.</p>

<p>Lafalum 84, yes he really likes band, debate and French. (We plan to bring him to France for the next summer vacation.) He also knows he needs to take AP Chem and AP Physics, and we all are very confused how to manage. </p>

<p>If he takes all band, French and debate, he will be fully loaded and can not take both AP physics and AP chem. Because he took hon bio last year, is taking sophomore chem this year and will enroll AP Chem in junior. He also has to take first course Physics in junior before he can take AP Physics B in senior. </p>

<p>Regarding math, he will take AP Calc AB in senior. He plans to take hons Fench 4 in junior and AP French in senior. </p>

<p>Any further suggestions…</p>

<p>I know that at some schools, it is not possible to participate in band or debate without taking the courses. It can be tough to include two courses of this type in a student’s schedule, and it may mean making sacrifices in terms of other course choices. My daughter, who was in an IB diploma program, had to go through all sorts of schedule contortions (including summer school) to be able to take band all four years. There is no way that she could have taken two electives of this sort every year. But she was in a highly structured curriculum; a student in the regular program might have been able to make it work.</p>

<p>I think it would be kind of a shame for your son to miss out on AP BC Calculus. A lot of kids like to get this out of the way during high school so that they can take courses that have calculus as a prerequisite as freshmen (or just so they can take something more interesting than a routine calculus class).</p>

<p>Could he get calculus into his schedule if he didn’t take French his senior year? He would have plenty of opportunity to continue his study of French in college. On the other hand, high school band and high school debate are things you can only do in high school; I hesitate to suggest that he should skip a year of activities he enjoys.</p>

<p>I can’t imagine that one could stay in band without taking the class time… although I suppose it might be possible to play in a small ensemble like Jazz Band or something if it met before or after school. But my experience has been that the spots in the small ensembles are usually reserved for the best players in the regular/symphony band, so that might not work out.</p>

<p>Debate is not a class at our kids’ high school. So it seems foreign to me that a kid MUST take a debate class all four years to compete. One year they had a class for freshman, but that has been eliminated. D2 competes in debate with no formal class time devoted to it. So you should pursue that question. It seems like debate lends itself better to this than band; in band, you have to practice regularly with your whole ensemble to get a good result. In debate you could arrange before school or after school sessions with your partner to practice, so you only have one person to coordinate with. Maybe your son could even find a partner who wants to do the same thing, so it is convenient for both of them.</p>

<p>OP, one thing no one has mentioned is that some of those colleges might not accept AP credits for the physics and/or chem courses if that is his major field. (They want everyone to get on the same page with General Chem or General Physics as THEY are introducing it.) In that case he would be faced with, for example, taking Honors chemistry, AP chemistry, and then General Chemistry. It’s overkill. Marian is right about Calculus however - the more the better. Otherwise, there is no need to beat these subjects to death. I would look into what the target schools accept for AP credit.</p>

<p>There can be opportunities for participation in instrumental music outside of school.</p>

<p>For example, some relatively advanced high school musicians in our area play with the community college’s band or orchestra instead of or in addition to their school’s ensembles. The college groups rehearse in the evening. </p>

<p>An alternative like this might appeal to your son if his interest in band is strictly musical. But for some students, playing with an outside group would not be a satisfactory solution. They want the social experience of being part of their own school’s band or orchestra as well as the musical experience.</p>

<p>Some schools will allow each year of a HS foreign language to count in meeting college graduation requirements for a foreign language. For some schools/degrees 4 years of a HS foreign language or 3 + 2 of two languages- either as HS years or college semesters will work. This means that taking 4 years of French in HS could meet a college graduation requirement for most degrees/majors without needing to take a foreign language in college. Any years past 4 will do nothing more so once he has taken HS level 4 French he could stop it and use the time for something else. You can check the reqs at the public schools to see if they allow this, they do at UW-Madison.</p>

<p>I never heard of debate being 4 years, many schools do not even offer it as a class. I would suggest trying to drop this course and use the time for AP courses. I doubt there is significant knowledge gained in all 4 years, especially compared to an AP course.</p>

<p>Band can count as an extracurricular and he may be able to do solo and ensemble competitions in your state. Playing an instrument can also be a stress reliever. I would have him keep Band as long as he wants to. He can take the academic courses offered as HS AP courses in college but he probably won’t find time for music in college.</p>

<p>Of course I presume he will never take a study hall. Even if he attends a college that does not give credits for AP tests the HS courses will be beneficial in being prepared for that material in college. AP courses will also show he is taking the most rigorous courses offered by his HS.</p>

<p>Your son should take the courses he wants and participate in the activities he enjoys.</p>

<p>Rather than worrying about what courses he takes, I would suggest that you focus on broadening your horizons about what types of colleges might fit his needs well. That way you can help him develop a realistic college list that matches his abilities and interests. </p>

<p>I think that top colleges like to see students that stand apart in some way, and they really don’t care whether a student has taken every single AP offered by the school. At the same time, I think that the parent or kid who is worried about what the “top” colleges want for a high school sophomore, rather than focusing on making the high school years an enjoyable and fulfilling time, is simply missing the boat. If your son does well in high school – good grades – then he will have plenty of excellent colleges to choose from. He may or may not be competitive for ivy-caliber schools – but he will be happier and do better in the long run than if he gives up activities he enjoys simply because he (or his parents) think that AP-something will look better on his transcript.</p>

<p>HERE,HERE calmom… couldn’t have said it better myself!!!</p>

<p>Thanks to all who replied. </p>

<p>You all are right - let him enjoy with band and French, as he really loves them. We also like him playing band, which provides him opportunities to relieve academic pressure and have fun with his friends. Regarding French he has a buddy who recently moved with the family to their hometown in France. They communicate now and then in French…</p>

<p>About debate, we will inquire whether he can participate without taking the course, in which case he can free up for another subject. Even if he can, we will leave him to decide.</p>

<p>In his school, debate is a one-semester course, offered in each year at different level - novice, advanced etc…The other semester students take social sciences, or technology elective courses.</p>

<p>AP Physics B is an appropriate first course in Physics for a junior. Why does he have to take regular physics first?</p>

<p>ClassicRockerDad, AP Physics B has prerequisite of Physics. If he does well in AP Chem in junior, probably the school will allow him to take AP physics B. However, would not AP Physics B be too tough for those who have not taken Physics?</p>

<p>It is doable. D took AP Physics B as her introduction to physics her junior year and I think this is not unusual at her good, public HS. She loved the course so much that she is now majoring in physics at a top 10. If your son is striving for MIT, CalTech, etc., then the degree of rigor that he takes within the context of what his school offers will be an important factor in the admissions decisions. I would encourage him to talk to the guidance department about being allowed to go directly into the AP Physic without taking the prereq.</p>

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<p>I’d like to see a future MD/PhD is good at all the 3 areas, in addition to medicine and being caring.</p>

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<p>When our school used to do science in the Bio-Chem-Physics order, AP Physics B was an option for talented 11th graders who by then had sufficient math to be able to do it as a first course. Now that we’ve switched to a Physics-Chem-Bio order, AP Physics B is given as a second year physics course to students who have taken conceptual physics in 9th grade. Chemistry is taught in 10th grade. AP Bio is now offered as an option for a first bio course in 11th grade. AP Chemistry was always designed to be a second year chemistry class.</p>

<p>Keep him in band and French. It is really too bad that he cannot compete in debate without taking the class, but I think the AP Phy and Chem classes will have to take priority if he wants to pursue biomed at the schools listed. Perhaps he can find a debate program outside of school or at a summer camp? Unfortunately, sometimes we have to close doors in order to walk through other thresholds.</p>

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<p>Lots of kids play in musical ensembles of one sort or another in college. Opportunities for non-music-majors to audition successfully for college ensembles are particularly abundant at colleges that do not have professional-level music majors. Somebody has to fill those bands and orchestras, and your kid may want to be one of them. The time commitment is not necessarily overwhelming; at some schools there are a variety of ensembles at a variety of levels of intensity.</p>

<p>For places like MIT, they’ll only take AP Physics C, and AP Calc BC for AP credit, and Caltech doesn’t accept AP credit (at least last year they didn’t).</p>

<p>I think that AP Physics C would work for a junior or senior year class after taking Calc BC and an introductory Honors Physics Course.</p>