<p>This isn’t India, and PrincessDad is a well respected and knowledgable member of this premed forum. My D is a MS1, and while she was in UG and applying I appreciated and respected his posts as he has first hand knowledge. I can’t say that for the naysayers.</p>
<p>Thanks mom
Good luck to your daughter</p>
<p>Medicalboy
From what you suggest of “only a year”, why not use it to learn Shakespeare, get a hobby, do something else. Once you graduate from medical school and become a doctor you will never have time to do so.
Read some of the data about doctor burnout and the lower rate of those who have something besides medicine in their life. What is the hurry?
Take a year off and travel Europe or teach English in Africa. The old “Renaissance Education” with education for the sake of education and a year “to do the continent” should not be forgotten.
Why do you think schools such as Stanford and Yale have such a defined general education requirement.
Medicine is the rest of your life! Do something else in college</p>
<p>e@Princess then why would you say that an accelerated program makes for terrible doctors?</p>
<p>@Princess’Dad Check your privilege. Some of us are of low-income brackets and we can’t afford such luxuries, no matter how much they may contribute to getting a worldly education.</p>
<p>Shakespeare doesn’t pay the bills. I love reading Shakespeare, but one less year of studies means an extra year of medical practice that could pay.</p>
<p>Schools like Stanford and Yale cater to rich kids. There are many people out there who have turned down such establishments BECAUSE THEY CAN’T PAY FOR THEM.</p>
<p>I apologize for any perceived hostility. I’m just really sensitive to this issue.</p>
<p>PrincessDad, generally I’m quite respectful of your post and knowledge. You did sound bit a privileged class in your last few posts, throwing around a lot of “ivy” credential, pursuing “worldly” view/hobby without monetary consideration. Reality is these “ivy” institutions do not intend to produce best clinical doctors, high-caliber research/healthcare policy is their focus. We have to acknowledge that kids here are already “mature” and “well-rounded”, that med school adcom deem them MD worthy. Argument against 7/8 program, is to use undergrad years to fully explore other academic interest, career, professions, that better suits oneself.</p>
<p>Miami
I would argue that the graduates of your local four year school are GREAT docs. I would also bet that most of them did four years of college plus half of them did something after college.</p>
<p>Sanguine
Unfortunately the Princess is in law school</p>
<p>Malibu
The Ivy schools mostly guarantee FREE tuition if you make < $100,000 - thus not elite for the rich schools!
pub
The kids here are high school scholars - not at all well rounded</p>
<p>Look at the schools that US News rates best medical - none are 7 year programs</p>
<p>But, I have nothing against doing Medical scroll in three years - Most think need at least four Yeats of college</p>
<p>Malibu</p>
<p>Again, you will never have a chance to read Shakespeare once you graduate from medical school. So what if you have another year of debt.</p>
<p>Sanguine </p>
<p>House is not a bad doc - but would you want him for yours?</p>
<p>I can tell you that the residency programs I have been associated with (other than than one academic one) look negatively at 7 year wonder kids.</p>
<p>This is not only my experience. - but that of most residency committees that I know</p>
<p>If kids want to do it, ok. But I strongly feel that it is a bad option - and will not choose them</p>
<p>What if one lives on more than $100,000? You could still qualify as middle-class. Colleges assume that you’re living comfortably enough to be able to afford an education but the harsh truth is that many of those people just barely have enough for items other than necessities. I know of professors from Columbia who claim they would be STRUGGLING if it weren’t for subsidized housing.</p>
<p>Yes, us middle-class kids would definitely prefer an Ivy over a cheaply-priced public school but the harsh reality is that 40k a year could be tough on our parents. </p>
<p>I don’t know what fantasy world you live in, but here in the US, the majority of us know that a month of touring museums in France or reading A Midsummer Night’s Dream for the 14th time don’t compare to starting your career early. </p>
<p>Please stop making references to House or Doogie Howser. Living in TV land doesn’t help your argument. They are not real doctors. Neil Patrick Harris was not a real teenage doctor. Neil Patrick Harris is an actor.</p>
<p>7/8 year med programs HAVE produced actual doctors that can attract patients and leave them satisfied. No fancy Hollywood-scale production there.</p>
<p>@princess so you think no accelerated program kids match into harvard, yale, mayo, penn residencies?</p>
<p>I hate Shakespeare…just to put that out there…</p>
<p>YeAh! Lord Shakespeare’s got this oedipal/freudian issue bogging him down…better left to his own devices…</p>
<p>Sanguine
In answer to your question, read. [Match</a> 2012 : Office of Student Affairs : UMKC School of Medicine](<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/sa/match.shtml]Match”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/sa/match.shtml)
Compare the radiology, anesthesia, ophthalmology admits to the int med, surgery, etc
I don’t see a Harvard, Yale, etc</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, for some kids it is a great option and they do well. But in my lowly opinion (and that of many of my colleagues) they do not o as well as the 4 plus 4. – and I would add that many medical schools are giving “extra points” to the older applicant who has some life experience as they tend to do the best</p>
<p>@PrincessDad Well if match is a criterion, I would say 6 year is as good as 8 year program. I was at PSU/Jefferson prgm interview last week and I heard that the recent grads of this program have been accepted to some of the best schools in the country - here are a few I recollect: Henry Ford (Urology), Yale, Johns Hopkins, Duke…
I have no doubt, will happily support my son, if he wants to join an accelerated prgram. I am sure he will happily run to the bank 2 years ahead of his Pre-med class mates.</p>
<p>Princess dad, you don’t make any sense. I don’t see your argument that 7 year BS/MD students are necessarily less well-rounded than traditional 4+4 students. I attend Villanova’s BS/MD program and all kids in my program must complete the same core curriculum as every other student at Villanova. So yes, we read Shakespeare and we take theology courses, philosophy courses, ethics courses, history courses, writing courses etc… Many BS/MD kids in my program were heavily involved in high school and were also extremely well rounded. It’s no surprise that many of them have continued to stay actively engaged in the community. In fact, because we are not required to partake in the typical pre-med EC’s (eg. hospital volunteering/shadowing), the kids in my program invest their time in other activities such as intramurals, cultural clubs, studying abroad, tutoring, special Olympics, Greek life, volunteering, doing research etc… Compare that with the traditional hospital volunteering, cutthroat premed who spends a vast majority of his or her time striving to achieve the highest GPA and MCAT score possible.</p>
<p>Gen ed requirements are retained in programs, only the higher level requirements that are major-specific are removed. And you are free to participate in all ECs without resume-building obligations.</p>
<p>I know UMiami said their combined students matched more frequently into “competitive” fields than their traditional med students. Residencies won’t care about UG, med school ECs/grades/boards are what matters. Being from a program only indicates you excelled academically starting from HS.</p>
<p>Neo
I am not “arguing” with you. I am giving these young kids advice from one who has been there and who picks them. As I said below, our top picks are from the old boys network. Very often I get calls from chairs saying “I am sending Ted out to interview at xyz to meet people he will need to know in the future, but I want him to go to w”. Some times I am W and sometimes X. If I am W and the boy is a seven year wonder, we accept him - but I can only think of one in the past 15 years of doing this (although many 3 year med school graduates). Our program has never taken a FG.</p>
<p>My advice to kids is and will be NOT to do the 7 year combo but to do at least 4 years of college with as many non-science, non-medical related courses as possible. Afterwards, if want to then do a 3 year medical program, great. We will teach them want they need to know as a surgeon!</p>
<p>I think most docs who have been in practice for a while will say the same. It is 100% in our “locker room survey”</p>
<p>It would be interesting to hear from a 7 year grad who has been out a while and hear what he/she has to say.</p>
<p>Neo, I don’t know what field you are in, but if not a doc, don’t think you should be giving an opinion on this :-)</p>
<p>@Princess’Dad–I’ve been out for awhile–decades in fact. I graduated from a prestigious 6 yr BS-MD program and took an extra year to get an MPH. So I did essentially a 7 yr program. I then did my residency at one of the Harvard hospitals. In practice, the fact that I did a 7 year program virtually never comes up. During residency, the only focus was on where I did my medical school training.</p>
<p>“Afterwards, if want to then do a 3 year medical program, great.”
-Are there any? I never heard aout 3 year Med. program. Even 6 years accelerated bs/md still have 4 year Med. Program.<br>
On the other hand, some kids simply graduate from UG earlier, in bs/md or not. Well, not everybody is interested to stay in college for full 4 years, people have different interests. My D. wanted 4 years, that is why she padded herself with 2 minors (graduated with one, another had to drop being 2 classes short of completion). However, it does not mean that everybody is this way. It also does not mean that graduating from college in 3 - 3.5 years will make anybody a bad doctor / person / parent, whoever. It means absolutely nothing. Everybody is simply different. My D’s friend has graduated Summa Cum Laude from private college. She is currently in Med. School. So, she is marked as “incomplete” personality or some other way for the rest of her life? I do not think so. I personaly know her very well. Very grounded, nice, accepting and hard working person.</p>