BA/MD Really Worth it?

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
1

<p>Ok, I've browsed these forums for a long time now, and I'm really starting to wonder if one of these programs is actually worth for a number of reasons. My argument point is this:</p>

<p>Since most of us will have already have completed around a year of college by the time we are done with high school, we can essentially make our own BA/MD program in 6-7 years. (If an accelerated track is what is desired.) This way it's possible to get into a better medical school / undergraduate school at a much cheaper price. </p>

<p>But my question is this: Do medical schools discriminate against kids who complete college in 2-3 years but still have the high MCATs/gpa/volunteer/research?</p>

2

<p>Yes, adcoms call it "life experience". This is especially true considering that the average age of matriculants is something like ~22/23?</p>

3

<p>you are completely missing the point of the BS/MD program. Its not the number of years that matters. It is the fact that you have a guaranteed seat in medical school and according to some students, this is the greatest gift they could ever ask for. Do you know how nerveracking it is to apply to med school? There are tons of interviews, travelling, competing for miniscule amounts of seats, paying tons of app fees: its just a big nightmare.</p>

4

<p>Also, just fyi...a poll of pre-med students on StudentDoctorNetwork.com reports that most have spent over $5000 applying to med schools (including application fees, MCAT fees, traveling expenses, etc.)</p>

5

<p>yes, it's completely worth it. if you're certain you want to go into medicine, and you have the opportunity to achieve your goal as easily as possible, what's to lose?</p>

6

<p>But sometimes isn't the cure worse than the disease? What if you are committed to a career in medicine and are accepted to a perfectly fine med school's bs/md program that you can afford but are locked out of applying at even better med schools (that you can afford) by program rules. And even worse, maybe the med school you have gained guaranteed acceptance to concentrates a significant portion of their resources on producing primary care physicians (although plenty of students find surgical matches) and you believe your interest level in primary care is low (you want surgery/research). </p>

<p>Do you suck it up and go to the dual degree school anyway (where you believe you'll be just fine) , or do you join all the other monkeys fighting their way to the top of the un-guaranteed barrel? </p>

<p>This choice is complicated by the fact that the UG experience at the bs/md school will be "not so hot", doable and potentially fun without the MCAT/denial threat , yes - but "not so hot" on the intellectual stimulation/social level. </p>

<p>Do you give up too much on the front end (the UG experience) and the back -end (potentially greater opps in your area) to accept the guaranteed middle with its (admittedly) wholly livable limitations?</p>

7

<p>first off, the people that do chose to go into a bs/md program over the standard path know one thing for sure: they want to be a doctor. its choice to judge whether or not a school fits your standards or not. for instance, if you really want to do primary care, a school like umkc would be a perfect fit, for research maybe rpi/amc, or for a strong speciality then maybe hpme. even with that said, plenty of kids from programs get into residencies all over the board, from primary care to radiology to ENT. the bottom line is that if you already know what you want to do, then go for it, but if u have any doubts than don't.</p>

<p>As far as "not so hot" on the intellectual stimulation/social level, this is a complete load of s***. im at psu's 6- yr program, and i can easily say that im having an incredible UG experience, even more so than regular kids just because I have a guarantee and far far far less stress on my shoulders. i still hang out with people in and out of the program and no one judges me or anything. as far as intellectual stimulation, you can still take any classes you want since your schedule is not exactly thar rigid. if u want philosophy or poetry or complex mathematics, then u can. moreover, u get prepared for med school also since u still take all the same pre-reqs in addition to even more med school related classes if u wish. to say that ur missing out is nonsense.</p>

<p>its all up to you tho.</p>

8

<p>What I worry about is losing my competitive edge if I entered one of these programs and not being able to do well in med school. If I only had to keep up a 3.3 GPA, do you really think the majority of students will try to get a super high GPA? In regular route, everyone works very hard to get the best grades. In the BA/MD route, I feel it can sometimes encourage laziness/apathy towards education. I say this for the majority case not everyone. I am sure there are a bunch who genuinely do enjoy college and still try to do well. However, I feel there is little incentive for one to do well in such a program; why work hard when you don't need to? </p>

<p>I think this comes down to more of the do the positives weigh out the negatives. As cliche as it sounds, go with your heart.</p>

9

<p>well i suggest you learn some self-discipline and do the bs/md program</p>

10

<p>ba/md is something coveted by MANY because you don't have to apply to medical school. how sweet is that? as someone posted earlier, you can spend up to 5000 dollars on med school applications....... and only 50% of those that apply get into ANY med school....... and not even everyone planning to go to med school applies because their GPA is below like 3.5 (which makes med school admission near impossible)</p>

<p>in a ba/md program, there are NO 'pruning' classes to get rid of people. everyone in the program works together to see that they ALL pass instead of a couple people having 3.95 GPAs and the such.</p>

<p>I think a little laziness isn't a bad choice either, as long as you keep your GPA above a 3.3 (or higher at other schools-- 3.3 in college isn't that easy to keep up)</p>

11

<p>as far as lazy goes, the idea that you'll lose your work ethic isn't always that true. for instance, in psu's program, a 3.5 modified GPA is required (modified since for the program - and + don't count and upper level courses receive an extra point for each grade). even so, the vast majority of students still have a GPA of about 3.7 or 3.75. in my opinion, it doesn''t seem like people are slacking off. as far as i can tell, people still work hard to do well in classes and learn the material since they will need it for med school. however, having said that, people also realize that when it comes down to finals, the A over the A- doesn't matter too much at this point, so they can relax a bit and not overstress. believe me, after seeing other pre-med kids here, that alone should make you come to a program over a standard UG school.</p>

12

<p>Would your opinion change if the GPA required was a 3.7?</p>

13

<p>Haha, I know which program you speak of too that has that high GPA requirement. I've seen people turn down BA/MD offers for top notch Ivies such as Harvard, Stanford, MIT, or Yale. They still do very well because they've prepared for so long and have experience with the process; perhaps they work harder than they would have in programs. Thats why I really don't know and would suggest to the OP that it is best to make the decision individually since it is a difficult decision.</p>

14

<p>once again, this is really subjective and dependent on the program.</p>

<p>as for the gpa, it depends on the school also. for instance, if it were 3.7 at UMiami, then it would be significantly easier than if it were 3.7 at WashU, which is probably the reason as to why many people don't end up going to WashU. For me and several others, as long as being in a program makes things less stressful and as long as I still end up fine as a doctor, I don't see why I should stress myself extra on GPA, MCATs, building a resume (which will no doubt have at least some activities that you probably won't want to do had it not been for applying), and blowing 1000s more on tuition and application fees.</p>

<p>also, for the gpa, no matter what a program sets the standards at, they know that the vast majority of students would perform at that level and beyond. they know that even if the gpa req was 3.7 over 3.3, kids would do anything to stay in the program once they are in it. even with a high GPA, u get something that no other university gives, and that's a second chance if you mess up once...that alone is priceless.</p>

<p>lastly, lots of people do turn down these programs for ivies, and this is once again all preference. especially if you're looking for an MD/PhD, i think ivies are defiitely the best way since the prestige of your university is everything for getting a research position. but in other cicrumstances, its really up to you.</p>

15

<p>Sorry, for accuracy, the website that I took the poll info from was <a href="http://forums.studentdoctor.net/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://forums.studentdoctor.net/&lt;/a>, not <a href="http://www.studentdoctornetwork.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.studentdoctornetwork.com&lt;/a> as implied by the name.</p>

<p>To add to previous people's arguments, many people who get accepted into these BA/MD programs have great work ethics anyway so a low GPA requirement (which really isn't that low because it's a little harder to get a 3.5 or 3.3 in college than in high school) won't matter as much because it's "in their blood" to work hard. For example, I'm in the HPME program whose GPA requirement is 3.2, but the majority of the class, including me, are so hopelessly overachieving that our GPAs are well above that. Trust me, the act of getting into one of these BA/MD programs is much harder than meeting their GPA requirements.</p>

16

<p>People are always a little hesitant about BS/MD programs. They're too preoccupied with the chance of attending an ivy rather than a lower ranked school, but the people who do choose the program begin to appreciate the BS/MD program as they are finishing undergrad. It's a long term decision. At first going to a not-as-well ranked college might matter, but it will help so many years down the road when you're done with your education. I'm in a 7-year program and have had the most relaxed 3-year college experience. I've had to maintain a 3.4 at RPI, but being over achievers, its not so bad to maintain a 3.9. There's no MCAT and having 60 bs/md program people at RPI (all three years), everybody is familiar with the program, and 3 years doesn't seem like I'm missing out on a college experience. Most premeds by their 4th year want to get the hell out, but we've had 3 amazing years, and we get to spend a summer doing research taking a few interesting classes for 10 weeks with our friends doing stuff on the weekends, hanging out at night, and making money, and doing really interesting research. Since you start your research in the spring, you get to know the area, the profs, your mentor, and you do your OWN project, which is something most people cannot do. And after a nice month off, you dive into med. school, which you have been waiting for so long. Every year we have bs/md dinners with the RPI program people and the people at AMC from the RPI program, and profs., guest speakers to make us motivated to finish RPI and get there. They make the program sound amazing at first showing the successful grads, but as you get to your third year, you really see how tight knit and amazingly structured the program is compared to ANY other bs/md program. And I have friends in at least 8, and NONE are as structured, as old, and as fun as ours. Some have to take a min. MCAT, some don't see each other till med. school, some have a high GPA, some have a 75% attrition rate, some have no structure, etc. And RPI people do the best at AMC for every single year in the past 40 years, and they do 20 points above the national and AMC avg on the steps so they get the residencies they want. Going to Cornell or MIT, I'm sure I could've had fun, but I def. would not be in so many activities because of the demanding curriculum, and this summer would probably be spent working all day, and studying for MCATs all night. I'll have to 8 years, go through alot of undergrad stress, and that still won't guarantee me a spot in where I want to go (my state school or a really well known med. school). And even if I'm there, it doesn't guarantee me success or even a spot in a field I want. There's always some risk, but the BS/MD program shaves off A MASSIVE amount of stress, allows you to enjoy college truly, do things its harder to do, save a year of college, and puts you in a great position at AMC to do well. We're so familiar w/ the environment, we graduate in a track called MDDR or M.D. with Distiniction in Research ( a mini-masters). I'd say if you get into a program (not a Caribbean one or something), then take it unless you really don't know about medicine or you want to def. go to Princeton. The name matters for 4 years, in med. school, its back to a standard, and after med. school, the name won't matter as much as how well you did. Just wanted to share some opinions of relevance and irrelevance.</p>

17

<p>Thanks for your advice. My D has been accepted to Yale and is hoping to get into the BA/MD program at TCNJ/UMDNJ. It is going to be tough to turn down Yale, but for all of the reasons you said she thinks too that if she gets into UMDNJ (7 yr program), that she will do it.</p>

18

<p>Hey gangsta, since you are in a New York BA/MD program could you tell me a little about the Rochester program? A friend of mine got in there and I was wondering about it. It seems like a solid school, but I was a little hesitant to really find out more about it. If you can PM me or post here, that would be awesome.</p>

19

<p>I am actually going through this dillema right now. I've gotten into the VCU 8 year program (min. 3.5 gpa to stay in) and the oh so prestigious Georgetown University. Obviously going to VCU will be much less of a financial burden for me b/c I'm in-state while itll be 40k+ at Georgetown. However, Georgetown also has an early assurance program that allows sophomores to apply to its medical school and still bypass the MCATs (very much like B.S./M.D. programs, except 2 years later). Also, I am very interested in going for the M.D./Ph.D program, which would knock off more than half of my expenses at Georgetown since they pay you for medical and graduate school.</p>

<p>As of now I am leaning more and more toward Georgetown b/c of their awesome undergrad programs (going to double major in Biology and Arabic). I just feel that if I go to VCU I won't be as intellectually challanged during my undergrad years. But that's just my personal experience and opinion.</p>

20

<p>I would say that BA/MD programs are definitely worth it, if you can get in AND if you truly want to be a doctor.</p>

<p>Students realize the benefits right from the start of their undergraduate careers, as they are not stressed about applying for medical school or about the uncertainty of medical school admission. I know of students who have given up the chance to attend an ivy league school for a BA/MD program, and are happy about their decision. One person in particular is in an eight year program: she receives support from medical school students, mentoring & research opportunities from a medical school faculty member, chances to work in a student-run medical clinic, socializing occasions with other med. scholars like herself, etc. She can major in any subject, as long as she completes the premed and humanities requirements and maintains a 3.5 gpa. She can even opt out of the program or apply to another medical school. She truly believes that she has been given a gift by being selected for the program, especially since she shares classes with other premed students who must build up impressive resumes, score well on the MCAT, appear for med school interviews...with no guarantee of success.</p>

<p>If a person has a strong desire to be a doctor and has the great fortune of getting into a combined program, then go for it!</p>