<p>Agreed. It is definitely personal choice. No one should lose sleep at night thinking that there is something that they could have/should have done that they didn’t! Applying to selective schools is stressful enough. I was just sharing my experience as well. When in doubt about any aspect of the admissions process, it always makes sense to call the particular school’s admissions office. As good as CC is, it’s not prudent to rely completely on the advice of an Internet board.</p>
<p>If you self-report them on your application, is it okay to leave out a score if it’s not as high as your others? Or if you report them, are you ethically obligated to report all, good and bad?</p>
<p>I think it depends on where you are applying. Take a look at Tokenadults post and link to a prior thread on page 1. In it there was a comment from a Harvard ad min. answering your question.</p>
<p>If you self-report scores and the courses are listed on your transcript, it may look odd if you leave one out. I would think that the assumption might be that you didn’t do well on that test, perhaps even lower than what you actually scored.</p>
<p>Many kids don’t take the tests, especially if schools they are applying to do not offer credit for them. A course without a score may look suspicious, but I don’t think they will automatically assume a low score.</p>
<p>I just report the facts as they are–all of them.</p>
<p>tokenadult</p>
<p>That’s what my son did, including listing everywhere he applied if a school asked–in alphabetical order.</p>
<p>Thanks for all those great insights, as well as the link to the prior thread discussing the issue. Appreciate it!</p>
<p>I’m leery of taking what teachers/GCs at my son’s HS say at face value anymore…they often don’t have the full picture or see other angles.</p>
<p>That’s why it’s great to have the collective knowledge from those on CC!</p>
<p>Since son can use all the assist he can get w/his eventual apps…think we’ll err on the side of caution & include any AP scores, if they are good (assuming that’s a 4 or above).</p>
<p>Again..appreciate the thoughts!</p>
<p>I used to think AP scores weren’t used for admissions decisions until I was at a Q&A session with admission representatives from three local colleges/universities. </p>
<p>One of the first questions asked was “Are AP scores were considered in the admissions process?”</p>
<p>The first representative (from a mid-ranked LAC) spent about five minutes spouting the standard platitudes … (blah blah blah) … like to see challenging courses … (blah blah blah) … College Board doesn’t intend for APs to be used for admissions decisions … (blah blah blah) … use them for credit and placement … (blah blah blah) … </p>
<p>The second rep (from a local state school) spent about three minutes repeating what the first rep said. </p>
<p>The third rep (from JHU) said simply “We use them.” The audience gulped in unison.</p>
<p>I guess you had to be there… ;)</p>
<p>Thanks, Dodo2.</p>
<p>That goes along w/what I was originally thinking: “Why not? Even if there’s a small percentage chance of it being a benefit – at at least one school.”</p>
<p>I just got nervous hearing such a final statement from son’s history teacher (“NOT an admission tool”). </p>
<p>Great to hear validation that there is certainly a possibility that they can be helpful.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t want son to go through the effort of memorizing facts/dates/etc. from 2 yrs of history classes (they’ve been very substantive) for nothing…</p>
<p>Thanks…</p>
<p>
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<p>This story highlights the hypocrisy of a good number of schools and the problems associated with the traveling adcoms. Unfortunately, there is a danger in believing that the representative really knows the official position of the schools on many items. It’s good to remember that schools often their most junior (read untrained) reps through those “informational” trips --which, by the way, should be avoided by parents and students as they are a gigantic waste of time and a source of MISinformation. Anyone who has read CC for a few years knows about the problem of erroneous --if not blatantly misleading-- responses to simple questions. </p>
<p>What is so unfortunate in this account is that the first two reps gave the correct answer, or at least the answer that ALL schools should give. The AP was NEVER intended to be part of admissions’ decisions. </p>
<p>The hypocrisy, of course, remains that despite granstanding announcements a la Marilee Jones about the need to revert to a simpler curriculum in high schools or let the students enjoy the life they should have (void of all of the unneeded pressure) colleges continue to reward expensive summer programs and the asinine race to the “mostest of the hardest” tests and transcripts, often without any rhyme or reason except for boosting the “image.” </p>
<p>The responsibility for this is **entirely **the colleges’ and their admission offices. Short of declaring that they will NOT consider the AP scores, one can expect this TOTALLY unhealthy development to continue. </p>
<p>An official position by a leading school that they will NOT give any credit (but only use the results as placement tools) AND will NOT use the AP for something it is not adequate nor relevant should go a long way in stopping this rat race. </p>
<p>The audience, instead of gulping in unison, should have booed the JHU rep and send a message to the school.</p>
<p>Xiggi-</p>
<p>I haven’t followed your history on the AP arms race, and I’m sure the problems you are referring to are real. However, I can’t brand the APs as inherently evil, as my son had a very good experience with them. They challenged him without overwhelming him (maybe because he didn’t feel the need to get A’s in every one 
), and they were generally taught by excellent teachers. As a result of the AP credit he earned, thought, he has several options available (double major, BS/MS) to him in college.</p>
<p>I personally don’t have a problem with a school like JHU using the AP scores from those students who take AP courses. One kid has nine APs with 4’s and 5’s and grades of A’s and B’s; another kid has straight A’s in the same subjects with 3’s and 4’s on the AP exams. Since they have both taken courses covering the same material, it seems like the scores could add useful information about the kids, or at least the quality of their HS program. (Obviously this is a biased opinion from the father of the first kid! )</p>
<p>All of this is in my humble opinion; for what it’s worth; and remember–your mileage may vary!</p>
<p>Jolynne–</p>
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<p>I’m sure he got more out of the History classes than facts and dates! :)</p>
<p>
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<p>Wow! I’ve never, ever heard that before. Only self-reporting, with an official report sent after the deposit is made.</p>
<p>Interesting discussion on the ‘AP arms race..’</p>
<p>My son’s experience in HS – he’s taking 2 AP courses this year (jr year) & is finally being challenged with some very substantive coursework in English & history. He had honors pre-calc & honors bio in 9th & 10th grade, so he had a decent challenge in those areas before. But not till he hit AP Eng/Hist in 11th grade did I see the teachers really requiring hard, substantive work out of the kids (e.g. more than psyching out the teacher & knowing he’d like to an essay w/a particular socio-political slant, which has happened many times in the past). </p>
<p>This year they’ve had to synthesize & interpret a variety of Sup Ct opinions, write detailed essays on classic (not just politically correct) literature & more. It’s been great! I never did work like this in HS…so nice to see the kids stretching (& improving). I think son is learning about really working out/editing a piece of writing for the first time (he’s getting good).</p>
<p>Just another view… </p>
<p>:-)</p>
<p>I have to say that my family will have very mixed feelings regarding AP courses after my D graduates. She will finish with 10 APs in a large, competitive public with a very uneven faculty. She is in a magnet program and the administrators do push kids in her program to take APs, but the school system is pushing APs all over. However, the students feels they’ll maximize their odds of drawing decent teachers in the AP classes.</p>
<p>Her first 2 courses demonstrated the range of AP teaching ability (or lack thereof). AP Bio was taught with passion by an experienced AP teacher. It was structured to prepare students for the test and regular reviews were held so that the details remained fresh. She loved it and did very well. </p>
<p>The other was taught by a new AP teacher who gave her A+s, held no reviews despite student requests and dept. precedent…and never finished the curriculum. Guess what? Those students did not score as well. This year schedule changes forced her to take another science class. Guess which teacher she was happy to take genetics with? </p>
<p>Private schools in our area carefully fashion courses that prepare kids for the AP tests all year long. That’s not the case at her public and is a big reason that she choose not take a language AP test last year.</p>
<p>Point of information:
In '04 application year ('05 admissions), one of D1’s schools asked for AP scores to be sent from CB. In '07 application year ('08 admissions) one of D2’s schools asked for AP scores to be sent from CB. </p>
<p>In retrospect I actually think in our case it had more to do with those particular colleges going over apps with more of a ‘fine-toothed comb,’ with less pure-stat gatekeeping, more personalizing of the admissions process of all applicants as a matter of policy/procedure. (i.e., they had the time or made the time/ had the luxury / of including the AP scores in the whole package). Prominent enough colleges, btw, but not rabidly popular.</p>
<p>Well, unclear on whether AP tests are used by colleges for admission purposes or not.</p>
<p>D is a junior next year and was hoping to take AP Bio. She just found out today that she won’t be able to (no room in the class and preference is given to seniors). She might be able to take the class in senior year - but is there any advantage in trying to do this on her own? Self-study and take the exam? Have your kids done this and if so, what was your experience? Is this something that is better learnt from a good teacher?</p>
<p>Personally, I would not recommend self-studying a science. It is highly unlikely that a student who is self-studying for the test could duplicate the laboratory experiences in the AP course.</p>
<p>We did not send scores. I don’t feel that they add any value and son had placed out of the courses the AP classes would have replaced at the school he ultimately chose so there was no financial incentive to pay for the scores to be sent.</p>
<p>I’ve only heard colleges say that the important thing is that you took the courses, but it’s hard for me to believe that getting 5’s on AP test early enough in your high school career isn’t worth something. Mathson just self reported the scores, all the schools had a place for one to do so. Our high school could have verified the scores, and I think he was some sort of AP Scholar - he became a National Scholar eventually, but not until he did well on senior year APs too. Would he have been accepted at the schools that rejected him because he only self reported AP scores, I tend to doubt it, but in retrospect, I might play it safe and send official reports.</p>
<p>Everyone does realize this thread is from a year ago, right?</p>