<p>^ its not really that..i mean i kind of agree with him to an extent..i mean AP doesnt really measure the students Smartness THAT much..cause everything is hidden in the curve....i mean like if somebody gets like 95% right on the AP test (assuming they either got the answer right or skipped)...and the cut off for a five was like 65%....then some other dood barely made it with a 65.5%...they both got fives...even thought the first guy is MUCH smarter...infact the second one could be considered kind of weak in that subject cause a 65.5% isnt even passing..
THATS What i hate about AP...you might study your butt off throughout the whole year..and some other guy just crammed in a few days..then you both end up with the same grade..and it appears that you guys are both equally as good...even though u did wonders better....
if only CB would show us SOMETING more then just the grade..like MC score...essay score..something....that could show if you truely Studied your butt off..in the case that you did..and wouldnt harm you if you just crammed (i am sure everybody has at least ONE subject they just like and they studied there butt off for..while they still need to cram for other things)
btw i am not bashing cramming...</p>
<p>EDIT: heh somebody posted while i was typing..i was talking abt the post above it lol</p>
<p>I agree, i wish we could see subscores, I want to know if i got a low, mid, or high 5, because the grades are such wide ranges. I almost knew id get 5's on chem and calc bc before i took the exams because on the practice exams i got almost 20 points above the cutoff for a 5. It would help a lot if i could see my raw score, the difference between 124/160 and 104/160 on ap chem is huge, but theyre both 5's.</p>
<p>I LOVE the AP program, but suggest three improvements
1) Raise the curves - the questions are hard enough, but getting 100/160 is not too difficult, and for a five. I didn't even read half the psych book, and still got a four.
2) More subscores - for example, phys B could have subscores in motion, thermo, E, M, light&optics, and modern
3) Addition of a 5* - such as 145+/160, which would have the same collegic value (as for as credit earned) as a five, but would credit those who really learned the material as opposed to cramming for the test.</p>
<p>I think they should at least show your MC score and FR score but that would be too much red tape for the collegeboard to want to consider. If they did that, they would surely raise the cost per exam.</p>
<p>"I LOVE the AP program, but suggest three improvements
1) Raise the curves - the questions are hard enough, but getting 100/160 is not too difficult, and for a five. I didn't even read half the psych book, and still got a four.
2) More subscores - for example, phys B could have subscores in motion, thermo, E, M, light&optics, and modern
3) Addition of a 5* - such as 145+/160, which would have the same collegic value (as for as credit earned) as a five, but would credit those who really learned the material as opposed to cramming for the test."</p>
<p>Yes, thats exactly what I want, it would make the AP program great</p>
<p>While I got a lot of credits out of the AP program (I took 7 of 'em) my opinion of them is kinda...well...mixed. I think the amount and depth of content the AP exam covers is somewhat less than the supposedly equivalent college class. </p>
<p>So AP's maybe overrated a bit. They are more of an "in-between" between high school and college, than they are real college courses.</p>
<p>I think vienna man is correct. Wellesley now only accepts 5s and 4 (1 semesters worth of classes) courses max so you must attend for 3.5 years if you begin as a freshman.</p>
<p>I am sorry that now Wellesley is a fiscal whore too.
You would think that our "great educators" would want to give our highest achievers (ther are still only about 50,000 AP Scholars with Distinction -5 exams-out of over 3 million high school graduates each year) increased access for higher degrees and greater knowledge, but instead screw them to balance their budgets. So tragic, but so telling.</p>
<p>All the top colleges pretty much run their policies in tacit collusion, but the one top school that has the courage to not go along with the gutting of the AP program willl have the opportunity of becomming the finest school in the country relative to the others in the years to come.</p>
<p>As costs escalate to a level that even upper 1% families need aid (and we are close to being there as the $50k per year level is breached) to attend, the one school that puts the students first will break free from all the others, and become the intellectual giant of the country.</p>
<p>I feel so passionate about this issue that I suggest a fiscal whore thread be put up so parents and students know the culrprits and can start boycotting them (we already have Amherst, Williams and Wellesley).</p>
<p>A guy or gal with with the talent to get scores of five in Biology, Chemisrtry, Physics, English and lets say French, should be off starting Medical School and saving lives a year sooner rather than wasting time on a bunch of "tuition" electives in college.</p>
<p>for those of you that think APs are too easy,
you have to understand that not everyone is as smart as us. I cruised through euro with 98% in class and 5 on the AP test, and yet there were several people in my class who studied a lot and barely missed a 3. The purpose of the AP test curve is to ensure that the average AP grade is a 3, which is why the curve may seem generous to you. As for subscores, well, there has to been some cutoff. I mean a person that gets 105% in a class and a person with 90.0% both get an A. You cant expect colleges to rank applicants by their percentages in the classes that they have taken.</p>
<p>True most of the "smart" people at my school, including me, don't think that 5's are easy to get. I mean I didn't really study at all (I really should have) other than what we did in class but my teachers were good and I ended up with 4's but my school's passing rate is dismally low. I think I'm one of the few students that even got 4's at my school.</p>
<p>I agree that the APs are easier than their supposedly equivalent college classes. As a physics major, I'm retaking chem and physics (not using AP credit), using the calc (cause my teacher taught more than just the AP exam), and using all the history crap so that I can fulfill the requirement without wasting money studying the history of music.</p>
<p>The thing is, it's not all about the tuition. In fact, since people with large amounts of AP exams are more likely to get merit-based aid and scholarships, it's in the interest of the school to have them through in 3 years - it costs them less to educate and they can have more alumni (which are extremely valuable financially) without increasing the number of students at the university. Similar with need-based aid, though those aren't necessarily statistically likely to have lots of AP credit.</p>
<p>On the other side, though, the reason why most schools offer unit credits for AP exams is almost entirely because parents demand it.</p>
<p>Even the most heavily endowed colleges in the nation manage their enrollments so that 50 to 60% of the customers pay full boat tuition. And it is about tuition dollars because they do want the students there for 4 full years. The top Ivy schools could eliminate tuition if they wanted to but know they have a brand they can exploit to run up salaries, sabbaticals and benefits and give the endowment fund managers more money to play with. Half the students in any class are shut off from this merit aid you think flows so freely. For most colleges, this game is about to end. The 50%-60% of the class that is now being gouged will not tolerate it any longer because even $200Kto $250K per year families cannot buy a new BMW each year to pay for a year at a college (and effectively 30% to 40% of another student's tuition at the same school their child enrolls in ).</p>
<p>AP fiscal whoring is the latest and most nefarious way this exploitation is continuing. It is simply another manfiestation of greed and ,in this case, is a true moral evil since it is depriving society's professions of its best talent by years.</p>