Are APs overrated?

Test Preparation AP Test Preparation
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<p>I'm sure I'll come under a lot of fire for writing this, but I will give my honest opinion. Does anyone else on the board find the whole AP system overrated? I think that the classes are great things to have for high schools in need of accelerated classes for students in an otherwise watered down academic environment. But I have serious complaints for those who think APs are the be all and end all of a high school career. My main problem is the extremely test-driven curriculum. To me it seems that the AP classes are so geared toward getting kids prepared for the test that the intellectual material can easily be watered down. This is especially true of humanities courses, where a curriculum can be much more subjective than something like, say, calculus, which is a pretty set course as it is.<br>
I'll use history as an example. History is one of those subjects that is pretty subjective, as there is SO MUCH of it. For me, having taken two AP history classes last year, I came out of the experience disappointed. I had two really great history teachers last year, one who was more focused on the AP and one who was less focused. My AP US teacher was great and really knew his material, but it seemed that he worried a lot about preparing us for the test. We went through US history in great detail and I immensely enjoyed his lectures, but to me it seemed that the AP curriculum was limiting what he could teach. In an effort to get through the AP curriculum, we had to skip things like military history and also had to seriously limit discussion time. My best assignments were after the AP when I got to do legit research about topics in depth. My other teacher (Euro) was much less focused on the AP and had a more seminar styled classand I think I got a lot more out of the material in the class in all. I think to a certain extent, being able to take fewer historic events in a class and analyze them in depth is a better way to learn history (one can RELATE to it, rather than forcing down facts). As a result, in this class we were less prepared for the test and I had to memorize a lot of random stuff to prepare. While the AP teaches how to "make connections", a lot of these seemed forced and more constrictive to discussion and free thought.</p>

<p>This particular topic leads me to another qualm of mine: the test format. While it is hard to come up with an intellectual standardized test, I think that the AP in particular glosses over insight for mere fact regurgitation. I was happy that the test was not 100% multiple choice, but the free response questions in the humanities really got to me. I think it is impossible to measure a student's talent based on a 30 minute timed essay. Upon reading sample essays in class, my first reaction to the high scoring essays was "Oh goody, they want us to spit out all the facts we possibly can". While it is possible to make some connections in 30 minutes, those are not likely to be the most thought provoking or original. How can they be in 30 minutes? I think it is more important to examine how a student can draw conclusions from historical research (one reason I like the Euro DBQ). </p>

<p>This leads me to another irksome topic: the AP scholars awards. It seems that so many students have caught on to the AP-craze and have opted to take as many tests as they possibly can. This seems especially driven by the prospect of college admissions and AP scholar awards (to my mind, an incentive for the CB to make extra cash by drawing in overachievers). I know ALOT of kids at my uber-competetive school who try to self-study as many courses as they can (even those that don't relate to their interests in the least). Most of these kids seem to be merely cramming review books to study. How is a college impressed by this? This approach seems pretty anti-intellectual to me. Can't colleges see through the kids who are glossing the AP curriculum? Might the kids be better off studying something of interest in their free time rather than just stuffing more info down their throats. (I think it's great if a kid interested in econ self studied the class if they couldn't take it in school, mind you; I'm talkin' about the kids that self-study psych, for example, because it's "easy and looks better on apps"). If I were an adcom, I think I'd prefer a kid who, while they may not have taken as many APs, is pursuing something of interest.</p>

<p>So here's the question: If you had only one period and could take a non AP, non weighted course in, say Russian history (or organic chem, or C++, or whatever else you love), versus an AP class in a topic of less interest to you, which would you take? Do colleges look more highly on more APs (and therefore "the most demanding curriculum available") or on those who may opt for less APs in order to take a class of more interest? Does the AP test limit intellectuality or enhance it? How do you feel about APs in general?</p>

<p>this is mot meant to offend anyone, I respect all opinions on the matter, but I think this is a good discussion starter (it certainly is a topic of much dispute among my super-competetive friends...)</p>

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<p>I think that the AP US syllabus is pretty good..sure, you don't get the military history, but it's only meant to be a survey course in American history. If you're really in to military history and want to study it, perhaps that is something you should pursue in college. You have to cover all of American history - you clearly can't touch every aspect.</p>

<p>If between an interesting unweighted course and an AP course of lesser interest, I would take the AP course. I don't know who would turn weighting, AP designation, and the prospect of exempting oneself from a class to take a course in high school. Woudln't it be better to take the AP in high school, place out of a class, and then in that class's place take a college level course in the interesting subject?</p>

<p>Colleges definitely look more highly upon AP. Most demanding curriculum available means that you are taking AP level courses. Opting to take unweighted, interesting courses may be motivated by a love for education, but college want to see you take the most advanced level courses offered by your school. If the most advanced level courses are AP, then that's what you need to take. The AP test does not limit intellectuality. It's an opportunity to study subjects in greater breadth and take a test to earn college credit, so when you get to college you can place out of survey courses in American history and move right onto a course about the history of the military, or whatever interests you. You are in high school taking advanced classes, they aren't going to be able to cover everything...and they need to be pretty standardized.</p>

<p>I think AP is an EXCELLENT program.</p>

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<p>The integrity of the exams themselves is strong. If you go to the AP website, you will see that socres of 4 or 5 are very difficult to obtain,</p>

<p>Since all but about 200 or so of America's colleges are engaged in pure remediation in the first year, AP is a vast improvement on any given Freshman class.</p>

<p>It is only schools who are terrified of losing tuition money through early graduation and lack of upper division courses (an example is Williams) that deny AP credit.</p>

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<p>the system has it's flaws, yes. I'd definitely agree with you that teaching ("prepping") for only the AP exam limits, in some ways, deeper intellectual exploration of the subject matter. One girl on here said, for her Latin tests, the teacher only used old AP Latin exams. One could wonder whether her students truly mastered the language or simply mastered taking the AP-style tests. However, I also believe that the tests are necessary for some level of standardization. And when you standardize something, issues like that inevitably arise. </p>

<p>On a side note, if it were up to me, I'd raise the standards of all U.S. schools so that all this college-level gen ed crap would/could be fulfilled in HS. No AP or IB programs needed. (of course, by cutting back the required courses, the colleges would lose a little bit of money, but that'd also be negated by people enrolling who previously could not afford to attend all four years. lol See? I've got it all worked out.)</p>

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<p>I personally like AP exams....why? I dont know. But they make you seem smart.
But I agree with you about the bit that CC kids kill themselves with AP. Whats the use of taking so many APs? I think a certain number of APs show that you are taking a rigorous curriculum. But 12 APs in a year show that taking and studying AP exams is your hobby and an extracurricular activity.</p>

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<p>Everyone wants an edge for college admissions. Some just choose 50 AP exams in their highschool carreer. What's wrong with that? No one looks down on a track star that trains year round (even the summer...<em>gasp!</em>) for a track season that only lasts 2 - 3 months.</p>

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<p>i agree with you that APs are overrated, but for a different reason: the curves are insane, and they're way too easy. the exams cannot sufficiently capture a year of intensive study...they are ridiculously easy to get 5s on</p>

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<p>jimbob,</p>

<p>rediculously easy to get a 5 on? I woudln't say that for ones outside history such as AP English Lit, AP Spanish, and AP Music theory...</p>

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<p>Or AP Chem.</p>

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<p>ap spanish is not that hard...i have 2 friends who got 5s on the AP Language exam and who got spanish SAT2 scores in the 600s.</p>

<p>ap calc ab also has a very easy curve (there was recently a thread about the easiest APs, and this one came up several times).</p>

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<p>AP courses are under constant review by the academic elite, so I think the curriculums are completely acceptable and not overrated - I think what IS a problem is the amount of public schools teaching to a standardized graduation test, but that's a whole 'nother topic.</p>

<p>I also disagree with the disillusioned posters who seem to think it is "easy" to get a 5...when you have something like 1.8 million test takers (and let's remember only the better students take AP tests) and only 20% or so get a 5, that seems pretty challenging. </p>

<p>I went to a private high school but could only take 1 AP class junior year and 3 (and self-studied 1) my senior year, and yet I think the AP classes were more rigorous and I like the structured curriculum over whatever some teacher wants to teach me in a normal class. My AP classes were more challenging and interesting than my non-AP classes.</p>

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<p>I also think that the CC perspective can skew one's perception of AP tests. I know that, with my current record of six 5's after junior year (and plans to take 4-6 tests this upcoming year), I'm right up there with some of the more AP inclined CCers, but nothing spectacular. </p>

<p>However, to my friends from high school, I seem ridiculously smart. Very few of the people who also attend my high school who have reported their AP scores to me received scores of 4 or 5. Lots got 3's, even a couple of 2's, I've only heard of three 4's so far, and two 5's. For most kids, these tests really are challenging. Many of the people who actually post scores on CC do so because they've pretty much mastered AP because they have the drive and capacity to do so. Not everyone in the nation does.</p>

<p>About AP instructors teaching to the test only...I agree that this is a very common occurance, but I think it helps keep a lot of teachers on track with their curriculum as well. In many of my AP classes, particularly those in English and social studies, teachers had a little more room to add fun information into their teaching. Standardized tests everywhere (included the dreaded CSAP in Colorado) have begun to dictate curriculum anyway. AP is far from being the worst of those tests.</p>

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<p>When AP was limited to about 150,000 kids as it was 15 years ago, colleges had no problem with the academic rigor of the exams. Only now after we have expanded opportunity and our students have stepped up to the plate and succeeded, do the colleges object. </p>

<p>In England, after the rigoorus A-levels, a first degree is obtained in three years. For our AP STRIVERS, WHY DON'T WE HAVE THE FOLKS WHO GRADUATE FROM THE HARVARDS OF THE WORLD DO SO ROUTINELY IN THREE YEARS? The reason this doesn't happen is the pure greed and avarice of the universities who seek to maximize quid for the bursary, instead of gray matter for the mind. </p>

<p>The real horror is the message the top liberal arts schools like Amherst and Williams (both deny any AP credit) are giving to our highest and most motivated students. They are saying that effort and achievement will not be rewarded for fiscal reasons.</p>

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<p>I dont think APs are overrated. On the contrary, I think they are underrated. However, GPAs are overrated. A's and B's only depend on the style of the teacher and are thus pretty subjective. If I had it my way, AP grades should replace GPA and class rank should be based on the same system as state scholar (the person who takes the most aps with the highest average should be valedictorian). Also, I dont agree that students should be allowed to choose what they want to do, especially in high school. At our age, it is important to learn a little of everything, and only later in life should we get the chance to persue our interests (college). Also, students have to take a real world perspective: not all jobs are created equal. Just because we enjoy a subject doesnt mean that subject can support us and our future families.</p>

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<p>I totally disagree from AznN3rd when it comes to tracking.</p>

<p>I've known what I was going to do since before high school. Had I lived in a larger city where this was available, I would have gone to a high school specifically for health related professions. Of course, I agree that everyone should have a certain number of credits for sciences, math, social studies, and English, but only two credits necessary. I'm wasting my time taking English classes that I hate, give me busy work, and teach me absolutely nothing.</p>

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<p>even if you do go into sciences, you often need english and other classes. english gives you the ability to write which you need in order to publish essays and papers based on research. everything is interrelated... however, you are right in that sciences would definitely be emphasized and are more important.</p>

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<p>That's why there's still the required 2 credits. I don't need the other 2 that my school requires, and it's time wasted when I can be doing things more relevent to my future carreer.</p>

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<p>APs are too easy, the curves should be harder. For the AP English Language test, i felt like I barely knew what i was doing but I still got a 4. I only self studied the test so i could place out of the english requirement at some of the schools i applied to (turns out i didnt need it, since the BC honors program gets me out of it). Also, i only casually studied euro (though it is one of my interests) for most of the year, and really turned it on with 2 weeks left, and still got a 5 on that. In stats, the class was so easy that I ended up hating it, and I did no work besides take tests. still ended up with an over 95 average and a 5 on the AP. Make the AP tests harder!!</p>

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<p>^You obviously just know how to take a standardized test.</p>

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<p>nope, taking a standardized tests (like SAT, PSAT, etc.) are quite different from APs. i do very well on APs, but not as well on SATs. SATs require testtaking skills while AP, well, ckmets is right - curves are too easy but i'm not complaining.</p>