I took a look at catalogs from a four year school (state flagship) and some community colleges. For all of them, the general biology course for biology majors do not list high school biology as a prerequisite, but do list (college) general chemistry as a prerequisite. Perhaps all of the colleges realize that high school biology taken in 9th or 10th grade may not be at a level to be a useful prerequisite, or may have been forgotten to a significant extent.
For general chemistry, the four year school lists high school chemistry as a recommended prerequisite. The community colleges list a preparatory chemistry course (which presumably introduces chemistry at what is ordinarily high school level) or passing a chemistry placement exam as a prerequisite.
The four year school accepts the community colleges’ general biology and general chemistry courses to transfer for subject credit.
So that seems to contradict the prevailing assumption that community college courses are always inferior, despite some of them being targeted to students intending to transfer to four year schools and covering material similar to the courses at four year schools.
Former CC graduate here- and currently teach as adjunct faculty at both a community college and a university post-baccalaureate nursing program. Way back in the late 1980’s,I started as a freshman in a community college. I took all of my medical school pre-requisites at the same community college. For some courses, the community college offered Honors versions that were very small classes (25 or less students) with excellent teachers. Even our lab sections were all taught by full professors, not graduate teaching assistants. My CC professors were readily available to me- their doors were always open, so I felt free to pop in literally anytime I had questions or needed help. Based primarily on my community college coursework, I ended up scoring very high on the MCAT, especially the physical and biological science sections, and gained admission to several medical schools (including one top 25 school).
Having taught at both a community college and university, I will concede that my AVERAGE community college student is likely to not be academically as strong as my average student at the 4-year post-bac program. However, for a highly motivated, highly disciplined student, community college can offer opportunities to truly master the content, to learn from outstanding teachers who choose to be at a community college precisely because they enjoy teaching. My honors Bio and Honors Chem teacher did NOT “dumb down” the course content at all. They simply did an outstanding job of teaching this content, in small, interactive courses. That said, I did have some mediocre professors, both in CC and at my state flagship university, but on the whole, the caliber of my CC teachers was superior to that of my 4-year college professors.
Please kindly advise some good community college like yours. A friend can’t get his high school but he’s sure a good student! Really wish he’ll have a good start in community college, targeting engineering. Thank yoou very much for your guidance!
I’m wondering if community colleges are the same in all states. I’m in MA, and the only kids from our high school that go to community college are those that were at the bottom of the class. It has a reputation as college for those that aren’t quite ready for college. I didn’t even know there was a process of transferring to a 4 year public until I read about it here and looked into it. Yes, our local community college has that route though I’ve never heard of anyone using it. However, in CA, it seems like this is a well established route and a real viable alternative for many.
It depends on the community college. Many of honors programs that are superb and attract a high caliber student. Here in Miami Dade our local school is no. Longer a CC. It changed its name officially years ago. Why? It offers four year degrees. All students get an Associates but many stay and get a bachelors. So it is now Miami Dade College. It is the largest college system in the US run by a county. It’s honors program is amazing. Students in film, nursing, education etc do well only going there or going there and then transfer. Anyone who lives in this county with an HS degree (or GED) or taking DE from a local HS can go and in general it is low to no cost. To give you an idea my daughter was sent without talking to them her acceptance and the forms for the honors program because she is a senior. She is heading elsewhere but many of her friends and my son’s from class if 2020 do elect to go there first. The rules are simply be a resident of Miami Dade and have HS or equivalent.
I have a Bachelor’s degree, but then needed to take prerequisites for nursing school at community college. My anatomy, physiology, nutrition and interpersonal communication courses stand out as some of the best classes I’ve ever taken, compared to all the coursework I took to earn two Bachelor’s degrees. And yes, this is in California.
NYS has excellent community colleges. There’s a clear transfer pathway from our cc’s to the 4-year schools. Some classes/professors are better than others, but that’s true of the 4-year schools too.
Our cc’s offer different levels of courses (honors, regular, remedial, sections of science for STEM majors and sections for non-STEM, etc.) so students can take the courses that are the best fit. If the cc is close to a 4-year college they may share faculty. If a professor is teaching the same course at both schools then the name, description, and content can be the same.
We have a guaranteed transfer program too. Courses accepted at one state school automatically transfer to another, and students who graduate from a cc are guaranteed an acceptance to a 4-year state school (although not necessarily their first choice). I think our system is excellent, but we’re a big state with a lot of resources. I don’t know how other systems work.
Course rigor isn’t set arbitrarily. It’s determined mostly by the students who take the course. If certain courses at a community college have always been taken by students of roughly similar quality to another university, then those courses would likely have comparable rigor. Otherwise, they probably wouldn’t.
On the other hand, whether or not course credits transfer to another university, especially a public university (which, more or less, is obligated to accept transfer credits), may not be a good indicator of course rigor.
I did my first two years at community college in California and transferred to a CSU. I lived in a suburban Los Angles county town and most of the kids went to CC. “Going away” to college was an East Coast thing and no one I knew did it.
Obviously it was a while ago, but I don’t recall the classes being particularly easy. In fact, as I have shared previously, I was put on academic probation at the CC. It was a much needed wake up call. Once I transferred, I ended up making the Dean’s list, so I guess I must have learned something from my CC classes.
Edit: I think there is a lot of regional snobbery about community college. In California, at least where I lived, it was the normal progression. I now live on the East Coast and, while there is a very good local community college, it is definitely a bit looked down upon when kids choose that route. I am sure there are CC’s that don’t have great educational standards, but my experience is that they do a good job preparing students for four year universities.
There is regional snobbery her in my NYC suburb. CC is often considered “Grade 13” and is considered less academically rigorous than even the less competitive colleges/universities. My friend taught briefly at one local CC that is considered quite good and found the students were less engaged and interested than even the inner city secondary school kids she had previously taught.
That being said, I know some kids that did not make it through college at the traditional age and have used CC to get back to academics quite successfully. For some kids, it is truly a lifeline.
My kids both took community college courses at multiple colleges (in multiple states) in high school, and one of my daughters started college at a community college and is now transferring to a four year. The rigor, depth, and expectations have varied widely between schools and even departments, but honestly, that’s been exactly the same for my daughter that went straight to a fancy top tier liberal arts college after high school. She has definitely remarked in the past that some of her CC courses taught her more and expected more from her than her classes at her current school. None of it can be painted with a single brush.
For those transferring within a state, one can often ask professors at the destination four year school if X course from Y cc is sufficient to cover what they should know or if they need to brush up more. Otherwise, math will sometimes have placement tests. Languages too.
Some colleges will allow credits from cc, but not within their major.
It just plain varies by school and prof - as can rigor at a four year school. There is no single answer that one path is always/never superior (or equal) to the other.
I think it really depends on the CC and the kid. I know kids who started at a CC and did very well. But they were motivated to transfer. My niece went to a CC and was on their cheer team. People come from all over to cheer at that CC.
Langarra CC in Vancouver BC has a vg Fine Arts program, and a terrific Theater program. Their grads used to be highly regarded by those in the industry because the length of the shows they would run (3 weeks as opposed to 3 days), and the teachers tended to be pros in the industry.
Community colleges can be good for some kids and sure, some of the classes have excellent teachers but truthfully, I have found that in my fairly limited interactions with our local community college, administration is apathetic, meat grinder/sink-or-swim classes, and generally speaking, a less than stellar cast of characters in the classrooms.
Goods are – cheap, commuter friendly, fairly easy to do well if you actually want to study and transfer.
The different CCs in NC specialize in different areas. Wake Tech has a really good game development program supported by Epic Games (local tech company, makers of Fortnite). Randolph Tech has been really well regarded for photography for decades. I know professional photographers who went through their program.
Fun fact, I sometimes walk my dog around the property of the guy that owns Fortnite. Beautiful Tuscan style property separated by a lake. Someone told me that the only way to get on the property is by using a boat or a helicopter. I would like to believe that is an exaggeration.