<p>
Brown actually has a lot of top-ranked departments. Applied Mathematics, English, Neuroscience, History, Computer Science, and Political Science are just some that immediately come to mind.</p>
<p>They are peer research universities in the tradiational fields but NU has a strong edge when it comes to the professional schools.</p>
<p>Brown Common Data Set 2011-2012 SAT scores for entering class was:
CR 660-750 Math 680-770 Writing 670-770 – not sure where you get your data from</p>
<p>US NEWS 2013 undergrad teaching rankings–Brown tied for #4 with Yale; NU-- not ranked</p>
<p>US NEWS HS Guidance Counselor Rankings–Brown #9; NU #17</p>
<p>Parchment College Rankings Student Choice 2013–based on multiple thousands of applicants-- Brown#7; NU #37</p>
<p>Revealed Preference Study of student choices with multiple acceptances – Brown#7; NU #23</p>
<p>Newsweek Top 25 Most Braniac Colleges Based on awards of prestigious scholarships from 2001 to 2011 Brown #5–after Y,H,P,S; NU – not ranked (rhodes,goldwater, fullbrights, etc)</p>
<p>Brown 2011 acceptance rate = 9%; NU- 18%</p>
<p>Princeton Review Survey 2012, 2011, 2010–Dream Colleges Brown in top 10; NU – not ranked; </p>
<p>This discussion Board is geared to undergrad applicants-- so it is pointless to talk about NU grad and professional programs. As for endowments, NU has an endowment almost 3 times that of Brown, but NU student body is more than 3 times the size.</p>
<p>This data supports my view that NU not a peer of Brown in the areas where they compete-- for undergrad students. Interestingly, while NU has a larger (and higher ranked) Med School for research, Brown Med is ranked higher for primary care. Brown has no law or business school, but its relatively small grad school is quite strong in many academic areas-- eg creative writing, applied math, neuroscience, among others. </p>
<p>Collegez</p>
<p>Princeton Review 2007,2010,2011–Brown #1happiest student body</p>
<p>c</p>
<p>Brown Common Data Set 2011-2012 SAT scores for entering class was:
CR 660-750 Math 680-770 Writing 670-770 – not sure where you get your data from</p>
<p>US NEWS 2013 undergrad teaching rankings–Brown tied for #4 with Yale; NU-- not ranked</p>
<p>US NEWS HS Guidance Counselor Rankings–Brown #9; NU #17</p>
<p>Parchment College Rankings Student Choice 2013–based on multiple thousands of applicants-- Brown#7; NU #37</p>
<p>Revealed Preference Study of student choices with multiple acceptances – Brown#7; NU #23</p>
<p>Newsweek Top 25 Most Braniac Colleges Based on awards of prestigious scholarships from 2001 to 2011 Brown #5–after Y,H,P,S; NU – not ranked (rhodes,goldwater, fullbrights, etc)</p>
<p>Brown 2011 acceptance rate = 9%; NU- 18%</p>
<p>Princeton Review Survey 2012, 2011, 2010–Dream Colleges Brown in top 10; NU – not ranked; </p>
<p>This discussion Board is geared to undergrad applicants-- so it is pointless to talk about NU grad and professional programs. As for endowments, NU has an endowment almost 3 times that of Brown, but NU student body is more than 3 times the size.</p>
<p>This data supports my view that NU not a peer of Brown in the areas where they compete-- for undergrad students. Interestingly, while NU has a larger (and higher ranked) Med School for research, Brown Med is ranked higher for primary care. Brown has no law or business school, but its relatively small grad school is quite strong in many academic areas-- eg creative writing, applied math, neuroscience, among others. </p>
<p>Collegez</p>
<p>Princeton Review 2007,2010,2011–Brown #1happiest student body</p>
<p>c</p>
<p>You are such a bitter person. NU is a peer of and, in most people’s opinion, better than Brown. You, or your children, if you’re a parent, must have been rejected by NU and their second choice was Brown.</p>
<p>All of those rankings are utterly pointless. Undergrad teaching is just one section, and ranking undergrad teaching is not in any way objective. Guidance counselors hear Ivy and think, it must be better. Their rankings are unimportant. I’ve never even heard of parchment rankings, but students’ choice isn’t anything important either. Students picking Brown over NU means that NU has attracts a wider type of student, including Brownies. NU has a lot of pre-professional programs that don’t have students getting prestigious awards, whereas Brown is very much focuses on more regular pursuits that could win those awards. Who cares about students dream colleges? What does that even mean? Harvard has the largest endowment in the country, but it’s much smaller than NU too. Being smaller doesn’t mean a smaller endowment.</p>
<p>When people mention Brown in my experience, people think artsy-fartsy hippies. When people mention NU, the think “Wow, that’s a great school.” I got accepted to NU, my friend applied to Brown; it never fails that people are more impressed by NU (And I’m not trying to brag, but it’s a perfect anecdote).</p>
<p>Happy student bodies also includes Clemson, and nobody’s saying that it’s a peer; that has nothing to do with quality of a school. In fact, happy students often means easier programs.</p>
<p>Also, why double post? Is your argument not good enough alone, so it needs to be doubled for any effect?</p>
<p>NU and Brown are equals at the undergraduate level. Brown has slightly more prestige in the East, NU slightly more in the Midwest; essentially the same elsewhere in the country. NU, however, is noticeably richer and this may have implications for the future.</p>
<p>Kalorama,</p>
<p>The data came from collegeboard.com. I put the links in my post. Please look carefully next time before questioning. Maybe you should question yourself where you saw the GMAT/MCAT scores (I don’t want to be rude but I honestly don’t think you were being truthful).</p>
<p>Even if collegeboard misreported, CR 660-750 Math 680-770 Writing 670-770 are still a little less than CR 680-760 Math 700-780 Writing 680-770. 
FACTS:
Fulbright in the last five years:
Northwestern 24, 24, 32, 20, 27
Brown 25, 21, 29, 24, 14</p>
<p>Goldwater in the last five years:
Northwestern 3, 2, 4, 3, 3
Brown 0, 1, 2, 0, 1</p>
<p>You just shot yourself in the foot. Ouch! :rolleyes:
However, I do recognize Brown has done better in Rhodes. See how honest and fair I am, unlike some ■■■■■■ on CC.</p>
<p>
FACT: NU student body is only a little over 2 times that of Brown (mostly from the difference in gradaute students). </p>
<p>
Yet you included the gradaute students in the student body when you compared endowment. If only undergrads are counted, NU is only a little bigger than Brown. </p>
<p>Graduate programs and undergraduate programs are often closely related; it’s no coincidence that many of the best graduate departments also house the best undergrad programs. The BME at JHU and Wharton are prime examples. Journalism, chemistry, and material sciences are some of the examples at NU. Selected undergrads can also enroll in the business certificate programs at Kellogg.</p>
<p>You can cherry-pick, have double-standard, and double-count (Parchment and revealed preference are just talking about the same thing) all you want; last time I checked, USN college ranking had NU higher in the last 5-10 years. The fact is Brown has better numbers in many categories while NU is better in many others. Neither has clear edge over another when all things are considered; that’s why they are peers.</p>
<p>All said and done, ultimately it all comes down to the general perception, no matter how many times one comes up with valid data to prove. And the perception is shaped (at least among the HS students) mostly by the college rankings and NU compares better than Brown in this yardstick, year after year.</p>
<p>You can spin this all you want. Those of you on this discussion Board started the discussion about NU being better than (or a peer) of many Ivies, etc. The fact is Brown handily beats NU among students picking between the two schools–year after year. The market can’t be that wrong for so many years; the surveys cannot be wrong year after year; the rankings cannot be wrong year after year. Brown is not fading and it is sophistry to suggest NU is a better school --or even a peer–in my opinion. People on the Brown CC discussion Boards did not talk about NU in a negative light, so I was caught by the nonsense on this discussion Board. I suggest you go to the common set data posted at Brown for factual information – I did not make up any data. That is the correct source to get data about a college. </p>
<p>For the record, my two children did not apply to NU–they attend S and Y. You do not have to make this personal. I am trying to rebut with data and rankings the opinions stated above.</p>
<p>Actually, Brown and NU are so different there is no comparing them logically. They are two different schools in every way so I couldn’t imagine a student being interested in both schools. This is an exercise in stupidity imho.</p>
<p>Brown has 6100 undergrads and NU has 8000 (according to NU website), so they are not almost same size undergrad population. Also, the Newsweek study that ranks top colleges is focused on outcomes --what students achieve, awards, PHDs, etc.-- not endowments and research dollars which is more grad school focused. NU was not ranked in the top 25.</p>
<p>This entire thread is a waste of time with mostly inexperienced young people adamantly arguing about things that are mostly irrelevant. Both are top schools. The SAT scores show the students are of equal ability. Brown has a slightly lower acceptance rate because of location and being an Ivy. NU is academically a bit more rigorous because Brown is open minded about requirements. A few years after graduation you will look and realize that all this arguing about college ranking was a complete waste of time. No one gets a top job because they went to any specific top undergraduate school. As someone who has hired large numbers of highly educated talented people their undergraduate school means very little. The sad truth is that many young people believe that getting into the “right” college sets them up for life when in reality it is only the beginning of the second or third inning of life.</p>
<p>Kalorama,
Nobody talked about Brown in a negative light BEFORE you cherry-picked data and made things up (still waiting for the source for MCAT/GMAT; I am not sure you just played dumb or covered up with another BS - common data set don’t have MCAT/GMAT data) to put down NU. You even made it sound like NU is doing worse than Brown in Fulbright and Goldwater when it’s the other way around. You should have checked the facts first. If saying NU is a peer to Brown is offensive to you, it just means you are being petty. There were certainly better ways to respond to your nonsense at the first place but you are in no position to blame others when you were the initiator.</p>
<p>Kalorama, good job ignoring the facts. You bring up a lie about Brown producing more award-winners, yet NU actually produced more. Plus, how many Oscar winners, Pulitzer winners, Super bowl winners, etc. has Brown put out? Very few, because NU is more diverse as a whole. 6100 and 8000 aren’t that far apart when there are schools with 100 people to 40,000 people.</p>
<p>3x the endowment of a school that’s 3/4ths the size (When Harvard has more $ and is smaller than both), along with better ranking in most rankings means NU is doing something right, and that it a peer of, and possibly better than, Brown.</p>
<p>Stop picking fights on discussions you have nothing to do with. It’d be like me popping onto a soccer forum and saying “Football is better than soccer; soccer’s for pansies.” Even if you say “Football makes more money,” as a totally factual point, it’s still a stupid argument.</p>