Are ED Applications to NU on par with Ivies?

<p>I saw this post on the Northwestern 2017 Thread...any thoughts ?</p>

<p>"I was checking out some statistics for Northwestern University at my high school (in Connecticut). It looks as if NU has seen a huge increase in the number of ED applications in 2012. Basically, the absolute number of ED applicants tripled vs the average over the last three years. The number of ED applicants now looks on par with the Ivies (based on past trends for the Ivies at my school). Not only is the absolute number of ED applications much higher for NU, but so is the ED percentage vs total applications submitted...again on par or higher vs the Ivies. This is big news for NU in an area where the Ivies are so well represented. </p>

<p>I wonder if any other students have seen this type of increased ED interest in Northwestern at their schools ? "</p>

<p>If you include EA, no school is as phenomenal as UChicago, which has over 10k apps for EA only this year.
Also, I have read a report saying that NU tries to admit more students through ED round so that more students will love the school (ED is a sign of commitment) instead of ending up getting lots of ivy rejects on campus. If this trend is caught by high school students, then it’s not surprising to see an increased number of ED applicants because ED becomes easier since the policy of admitting more ED students.
NU is a great school and I think it’s on par with the low ivies such as Brown and Cornell. Also, from my notion, it’s science and engineering should be comparable to Columbia and better than UPenn and Dartmouth. And it’s engineering is better than that of HYP, which are all comparably weak in engineering. However, overall, I think NU falls behind of HYP, no matter judging from prestige/recognition (both domestically and internationally), yield rate, enrolling students SAT/ACT scores, or other factors.</p>

<p>Here are some stats of applicants to the Class of 2015 (those who applied two admissions cycles ago), as posted by Pizzagirl. </p>

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<p>For the class of 2015:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/northwestern-university/1114541-nu-overall-acceptance-rate-18-down-27-just-2-years-ago.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/northwestern-university/1114541-nu-overall-acceptance-rate-18-down-27-just-2-years-ago.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Overall acceptance rate for Class of 2017 (ED + RD combined) is predicted to be around 13%.</p>

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<p>To be brutally honest, Northwestern probably has worse name value/prestige than even the lower Ivies, although in terms of the actual academic excellence and rigor, it’s definitely up there with the best of the best. I’m banking on this to change, though – the name value/prestige part, not the academic excellence! ;)</p>

<p>There’s this perennial notion that NU is “on the rise” per se, but I’m not sure if that’s really true. If anything, I think NU’s reputation has stayed pretty much the same since I’m guessing forever. I haven’t been around for forever, obviously, but I do know that NU’s US News rank peaked at #8 like 20 years ago or something. As sucky as those rankings are, you can’t deny that they’re insanely influential.</p>

<p>Of course, hopefully these new data are proof that Northwestern actually is on the rise! What I think Northwestern needs is more active marketing like they do over at Chicago. It’s a shame so many people in the East and West have never even heard of Northwestern.</p>

<p>^I came from Hong Kong and had moved around quite a bit in the US. I’d say there’s virtually no difference in terms of name/prestige between Northwestern and lower Ivies in the West. In the NE, of course schools like Brown and Cornell have better name value due to proximity. But the reverse can be said in the Midwest. They are all pretty even once you consider all regions. And many people in all regions view them as peers. Many at NU are pretty proud of its reputation but there are always gonna be some that feel NU needs to be more well-known. I think that’s why the administration hasn’t really divert more resources to do what UChicago has been doing (I have a feeling that the resources required are probably much more than we think; after all, there must be a reason why many schools are not doing the same thing). We got the best marketing department in the world; I am sure they know what UChicago has been doing works but the administration doesn’t think this is as high of a priority like UChicago does.</p>

<p>@salibut20, I think Northwestern is just less known than lower ivies to the general public. Those who know about top U.S universities always rank Northwestern higher than lower Ivies, Brown and Cornell. Northwestern is rated quite fairly, especially considering any prestige buff, such as ‘Ivy’ status.</p>

<p>“I am sure they know what UChicago has been doing works but the administration doesn’t think this is as high of a priority like UChicago does.”</p>

<p>That is the million $ question, Sam Lee. Why doesn’t the adminsitration think this is high priority?!</p>

<p>^I am not saying it’s not of high priority. It’s just not as high as UChicago seemingly think so NU hasn’t matched their effort. Most colleges have not matched or simply can’t match UChicago. Running colleges is about weighing competing priorities and allocating limited resources accordingly after all.</p>

<p>Who knows, maybe their marketing effort was a result of a large donation and the donor stipulated that the money has to be used for admission marketing.</p>

<p>That may be so, Sam Lee. Yet can’t help feeling frustrated at the perceived lack of publicity, especially overseas, in spite of NU’s superb quality of academics and otherwise.</p>

<p>Northwestern is very well known and respected in the midwest. Many prefer NU to UChicago because of its location (Evanston’s safe suburb vs UC’s high crime). </p>

<p>Also, having lived abroad, in the US midwest, south and on the west coast, I know that NU is highly respected around the world to not only to the academically educated, but also to talented artists and sports followers. The general public from certain areas may not be familiar with it, but, they probably haven’t heard of Williams, Amherst, Dartmouth, Wash U St Louis, Pomona, or even Cal Tech, even if it was in their home state and/or a neighboring state! The Harvards and Johns Hopkins will always be famous because they just are. But does it really matter if your local Tennesee drycleaner hasn’t heard of your school? Not really. What matters is future graduate schools and future employers. The top schools are known. It won’t matter so much if you agree to the rankings. What matters is if the rankings matter to those who will hire you. It may be the difference on whether you get your foot in the door for that interview. </p>

<p>U Chicago uses an intense marketing campaign and since they offer Early Action instead of Early Decision (that Northwestern offers), there will be many who apply to UC as a non-binding back up to other elite universities in case they don’t get in anywhere else with similar financial aid. You can’t compare that admissions stats on these two schools because they are so different.</p>

<p>How did this thread become about UChicago again? Haha, of course, can’t avoid that. Thanks, Zyl. </p>

<p>Anyway, Northwestern has always had an impressive application pool without even trying that hard to recruit. I think that speaks volumes about its reputation. </p>

<p>2,600 applying ED to Northwestern is a very strong number. Of course, it’s smaller because it’s not EA. As you probably know, applying ED indicates the school is your strong first choice and you have to attend if admitted. A lot of people who apply EA just want to “have one in the bag” early and don’t necessarily commit to that school, so non-restrictive EA numbers will likely be higher.</p>

<p>NorthwesternDad,</p>

<p>The lack of publicity in overseas applies to a lot of schools such as Brown, Dartmouth, JHU, Duke, WashU, etc. NU has done enough to stay competitive and get a lot of the best students in the country. To do even more marketing for the purpose of getting more publicity and playing the ranking game aggressively may not sit well with many educators (is it really what schools should be putting so much energy on? how is it related to the mission?). Maybe it is about resources; maybe it is about competing priorities. But the reason could also be philosophical and moral. Maybe it’s a combination of all these. I don’t really know and I am just throwing a pile of thoughts here.</p>

<p>Thanks much for the different perspectives, Sam Lee, and lagunal.</p>

<p>I always laugh when folks at cc make sweeping generalizations about which schools are on par with other colleges and which are equal or higher in prestige. I like to rely on data and statistics to make my points. NU is not on par with Brown. Students accepted to both schools overwhelmingly choose Brown. This statistic is a market based measure of desirability and prestige. Brown has better placement at top grad schools, and has higher average GMAT, LSAT and Med School entrance exam scores. Brown loses most of its accepted students to only five schools in this order-- yale, harvard, stanford, princeton and MIT. Brown’s overlaps include HYSC. I do not have a negative opinion of NU, but it is not a peer of Brown.</p>

<p>2009 mean LSAT scores by college
161- Cornell, Georgetown, Haverford, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Washington + Lee and Wesleyan
163 - Brown, Columbia, Duke, MIT, Penn</p>

<p>Northwestern is ranked above Brown in every reputable college ranking other than Forbes and Washington Monthly (Which is a very different type of ranking), both of which it is within 4 spots or so. I know rankings don’t mean everything, but that shows something that among USNWR, Times, QS, ARWU, etc. they all believe NU is better. NU is ABSOLUTELY a peer, and many would consider it superior.</p>

<p>Brown’s reign has faded to be honest. We live in a different era now.</p>

<p>These days, Brown is considered inferior to even Cornell and Dartmouth. Brown is not well-renowned for anything. In today’s rankings-driven world, its historic reputation is not enough to carry it through. It likes to brag about its overall undergraduate focus but the truth is that most top 20 schools have a strong undergraduate focus as well, plus more. It loses out in every way, including its very low endowment. How many top-ranked departments does Brown have?</p>

<p>Btw, not that tests are everything, but Northwestern has higher SAT/ACT averages than Brown. </p>

<p>Northwestern and Brown are not peers. Northwestern is a strong research university AND a liberal arts college, whereas Brown is more like a strong liberal arts college only, nothing more.</p>

<p>By the way, I turned down Brown when I chose Northwestern and have no regrets. When I think twice about my decisions about the schools that accepted me, Brown doesn’t even come to mind. Sometimes Yale does, and even Chicago sometimes (gasp) but definitely not Brown. Even its PLME is considered inferior to Northwestern’s HPME.</p>

<p>Kalorama,</p>

<p>Why use LSAT taken by a small fraction of the student body when the published (where did you get the “2009 mean LSAT” anyway?) SAT/ACT ranges come from the ENTIRE student body and therefore offer much more valid and direct comparison? </p>

<p>SAT
Northwestern:
Critical Reading: 680-760
Math: 700-780
Writing: 680-770</p>

<p>Brown:
Critical Reading: 630-740
Math: 650-760
Writing: 640-750</p>

<p>ACT
Brown: 29-33
Northwestern: 31-34</p>

<p>By the way, it seems like the preference of the 17/18 yo is very important to you. I like how you revere them so much. You are a very humble person.</p>

<p><a href=“https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/compare-colleges[/url]”>https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/compare-colleges&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/compare-colleges[/url]”>https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/compare-colleges&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Brown will attract a certain type of student who would not be happy at other top level universities. So Brown’s place in the Top 20 undergrad research schools is pretty safe for at least the next 5 years. </p>

<p>NU though is climbing into the Top Ten for USNWR. This year the acceptance rate will decrease from last year’s 15% and it will just get more competitive year after year. </p>

<p>To answer the original question: “I wonder if any other students have seen this type of increased ED interest in Northwestern at their schools ?”</p>

<p>The answer is, ‘yes’ but, the better answer is: There will be even more interest in ED in the next few years after new (not to reveal anything) and incredible programs are released to the public, their ranking jumps, and their name is better known all over the world.</p>