Are "Geeks" In, Populars "out"?

Parents Forum
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<p>Yeah ebeeeee is right. </p>

<p>I actually was in HS not long ago so I know how things are-- most kids aren't going to be telling their parents that they're unpopular, are bullied, not cool, etc. That's not how things go. And parents seem to give their kids the benefit of the doubt on what they HOPE their kids are-- who wants to have a timid kid who is bullied?</p>

<p>That being said, the situation isn't how most of you are portraying it.</p>

<p>It is basically:</p>

<p>The popular kids are: on a sports team, average intelligence, but their parents will kick their butts if they don't do well in school and they HAVE to get into SOME college no matter what-- how else will they get money?</p>

<p>The geeks are: in band so they get letterman jackets and think they're cool when they aren't believed to be by the rest of the population, in different clubs, and they modest grades. I really don't think they're the smartest per se, but they're smarter than the popular kids and they try hard.</p>

<p>The "freaks" as someone mentioned don't really do well in school but they're just nerdy and weird because they focus on other subject matters besides their studies which might definitely be academic but aren't helping their grades much. They usually think their other interests trump schoolwork. They might be really, really smart (too smart to function) or not really that smart.</p>

<p>The BEST breed of popular kids are the ones who don't hang out with the pot smokers and actually have social lives are: smart, in a cool club, they work hard, and are on a sports team. These are the elite but they usually only hang out with other elites.</p>

<p>People stay in their own groups and don't intermingle much. But in regards to how they all view each other the elites think they're too good for the rest, the popular ones hang out with each other and party and don't have many academic interests, the geeks just hang out at school and at band meets and the freaks are always hanging out.</p>

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<p>^ ouch, that is actually what my high school does a lot. This year some girl who is very "geeky" and who hardly anybody knows just won Homecoming Queen. This topic is kind of interesting actually. A couple of kids are doing a documentary about the different cliches at our school. They ask the students what label their certain group of friends should be associated with. For example, I hang out with my teammates (who are mostly in AP classes). Some people have called my group the Aqua Jocks/smart-group. However it seems that the geeks are not "special" enough to be in this documentary. It is only for the seniors who are well-known. </p>

<p>I think that the geeks do not rule high school, but do better in college.</p>

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<p>I've watched this phenomena from my desk and while walking through the quad at the small rural hs where I teach. What I have learned is that in general the Populars who put stock in their status and work hard at maintaining it become characatures of themselves in the eyes of everyone one else by about spring of their junior year. Rather than being looked up to they are seen as kind of silly by their classmates and the savvy underclassmen. The Populars who don't work at it are just friendly out going kids who everyone likes remain that way.</p>

<p>The nerds who have a like minded nerd herd usually gain status as Senior year approaches. Smart kids here eventually gain the respect and friendship of their classmates and by the end of Sr. year people are either friendly w/ or genuinely friends with members of cliques they wouldn't have associated with their freshman year. It's a testament to the overall quality of the class as to how early that happens.</p>

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<p>My son doesn't go to a traditional HS. I think that's why I have a favorable view of what goes on today. And the social stuff is one reason I'm glad he doesn't go to our neighborhood school; it's more the school described by nickthecoolest.</p>

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<p>Our public hs is small enough that the groups are, of necessity, intermixed. The school wouldn't be able to field teams, have theater, constitute bands.... if the players were segregated by "type." So the smart kids and top athletes and band geeks etc. etc. all know each other intimately (most of the class has been together since kindergarten) and that militates against simplistic stereotypes. It's a very fortunate situation.</p>

<p>Doesn't mean there isn't some adolescent angst to go around about "whether I fit in" and who's "popular." That is a rite of passage, I think; affecting some more than others but never totally absent. I do think it was more of a middle school issue in our town.</p>

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<p>^^^that happens here too. A lot of the kids do a lot of activities together which helps. Oh and band here is where the cool kids can be found. With about a third of the high school in band it crosses all group boundaries.</p>

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<p>Ruskie:</p>

<p>Aqua Jocks/smart group? That sounds like one my S could be a member in. I know our HS water polo/swim coach is pleased to note, at each end of season banquet, that his teams are always quite competitive with the tennis team (which tends to be primarily Asian) in terms of jocks who get the academic awards at the school. No water on the brain for these guys!</p>

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<p>Soccer girls team usually get the academic awards at our school. ;)</p>

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<p>My S tells me a geek is defined as someone who is a social outcast. All other characteristics, such as enjoying computer games, are secondary traits and may also be held by non-geeks. Being popular is self-defining--you have lots of friends. Other characteristics correlated with popularity, such as being an athlete, are also secondary and can also be held by non-popular kids. For example, an irritating teammate may be stuffed into a locker. Nevertheless, this kind of abuse isn't at the hands of the popular kids on the team but yet another tier entirely. It is my impression that the popular kids don't particularly notice the people outside their group, either to envy or belittle, unless there is a specific need. For example, a popular kid would be perfectly friendly to a randomly chosen lab partner (even if a geek), but wouldn't even see that person if they passed them in the hall.</p>

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<p>Findaplace, lol, my water polo team also battles with the tennis team. Since the aquatics program has become so much better over the years and has been getting closer to state finals every year, we have been getting the "best team of the year award" at our school instead of the usual tennis team.</p>

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<p>I reads snippets of this thread to S2 and S3 at dinner tonight. S2 says "being popular is all point and perspective." Wise kid.</p>

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<p>I think cliques are more of a suburban and rural thing. In the HS i go to, kids are too concerned about working, having a good time, and dealing with real life problems to worry about forming "geek" and "popular" groups</p>

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<p>Each group (and these all deserve quotation marks around them): nerds, jocks, theater kids, band/rock kids, skateboard street urchins, etc. all have their own popular members, and I don't think they worry very much what the other groups think of them. If you're a standout in your given peer group, you're going to be popular. There is also a LOT of intermingling among the groups-- MANY of the athletes are in band, chorus or both. It's a very accepting, non-clique-ish school. Wish I had gone to one like this as a teenager!</p>

<p>As for homecoming kings and queens, our HS has elected in recent years: good-looking popular kids, the top girl athlete, one mentally disabled student, another with a serious chronic health condition. NONE of it is a joke. The one constant is that these kids are friendly and popular and well-liked by their peers.</p>

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<p>Guess it depends on the school and what classes/activities are available. That could determine the nerd/popular categories. The school my 2 kids recently graduated from had advanced academic programs for students, but also had academic programs designed around athletes so they did well in classes and didn't graduate only because of their athletic skills. It was a unique setting where many of the "Popular" jocks; football, basketball, gymnastics, swimming, etc... as well as other "Popular" kids were graduating top of their class. 3 very popular kids; were star athletes, IB program, additional AP classes, student council, NHS, boys/girls state, orchestra, clubs, etc... and graduated with 4.0 gpa's. So I guess it's possible for the stereotypical nerd to also be the popular home coming king/queen or the star football player.</p>

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<p>I think our school is a tad different in that it really is cool to be smart. In fact, that is one of the selling points to prospective parents and kids. Being the captain of the football team or whatever and taking an AP laden curriculum is really the norm. And while we thought it was more or less lip service to people interesting in the school, it actually is true. Of course, there still are lots of cliques but dong well in school is something everyone more or less aspires to -- and actually if you werent you could be asked to leave, although that's rare and most (if they're not cutting it) leave on their own accord. The cliques are usually sport or activity related. There are the drama kids, the emo kids (which I don't really know what that is, only that the phrase is used a lot), then there are the sports (and usually that only holds true for the season since a lot of kids play multiple sports) and then there are the geeks/nerds but they can cross over a lot of groups depending on their social skills. As a rule, the girls are usually way more cliquey than the guys and basically, the boys get kind of swept along. There can be a lot of cat fighting about what guys are hanging out with whom. The boys are much more "chill" as they say and try not to get into the girls' drama. :) </p>

<p>The only thing that really bothers me at S's school is that there is a little bit of self segregation between the black kids and others (there is a lot of diversity at the school and it's not like there's fighting or anything, there is just an intentional segregation going on). There is a room where the diversity coordinator has his office and they hang out in there instead of in student lounges etc. It's really not productive and my "complaint" about the diversity office is that diversity isn't just a shade of skin. The asian and indian kids have no problems that way. They definitely speak their mind, but also are truly represented in all facets of the school. I don't get it.</p>

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<p>I think it so much depends on the particular school. Back in the day our HS had its cliques with labels we used; at my D's school it's different groups and different labels (though she'd argue more redundancy and permeabllity across groups). I strongly doubt there is one 'state of the union of HS' we can establish. Back in my day nerds were unpopular but the ones who excelled in class; at her school, everyone excels in class (some of the top students are by far the most popular 'cool' beautiful people). </p>

<p>At Ds school, it's a very small, selective private, all girls, all uniform school. Very academic and very sports oriented, and about half Asian and half not. So everyone is very serious about school and cares very much about grades, and works really ard. And about 1/3 to 1/2 are very serious about sports too (many go to top schools via sports from this school). </p>

<p>She would argue there are four basic camps (though it's an oversimplification): 1) nerd Asian 2) popular Asian (the asians divide by how long they've been in the culture, and whether they play on teams) 3) nerd non-Asian and 4) popular non-Asian (the two non-Asian groups are different in that one is non-athletic and the other tend to be on lots of teams).</p>

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<p>"As for homecoming kings and queens, our HS has elected in recent years: good-looking popular kids, the top girl athlete, one mentally disabled student,"</p>

<p>LOL can't believe this is coming up, but anyway, as it happens I know very personally that one can be elected king while being a heavy geek :] though I can say most candidates were more traditional ones.</p>

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<p>I realized it wasn't clear from my post, but academic success wasn't a requirement or a hindrance for any of the cliques, in my son's view. There are plenty of athletes, including football players, who are at the top of the class academically, who are also very popular. Those kids often go into the Elite category mentioned by a previous poster. What he was saying is that people who have more than a couple of friends would not be called geeks. He considered that label to be very pejorative (although he didn't use the term pejorative because he isn't one of those kids at the top of the class academically).</p>

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<p>They are getting more respected BUT they aren't certainly getting more popular in high school!
Not until the day high school girls are turned on by their geeky classmates on sight... which from what I've seen.. is very unlikely unless the girl is a total geek herself.
To be fair to the geeks in my school are more likely to do well on the SAT than the non-geeks (you know that freaking 'Ms. Perfect' who is going to get acceptances to Duke, Penn, etc. who just couldn't quite break 1500 (M + CR), regardless of grades.</p>

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<p>Wow.... This is so different from my school, felt obliged to comment. This is so weird, I guess my mixtures of activites set me apart. I ski race for my high school, a varsity sport, I play Trombone in Band, I do the Crew for Musicals and Fall Play, and I take highly advanced classes. I guess there are 'cliques' in my school, but its not like hazing or anything. If you wanted to you could talk to anyone else without it being super awkward. </p>

<p>My public HS is extremely compeitive, so all the popular kids are 'jocks' who get straight A's. But they're not really popular, its hard to measure it. I have lots of friends, and so does most everybody. The key is good grades and having an EC.</p>