<p>^^^
hasnt he already made his choice by May 1st??</p>
<p>In the past you said he visited Umich and didnt like it. did he like G’town when he visited?</p>
<p>My 2 cents for what its worth. I have seen some of the inner workings of both Akron and Kent states honors programs and heard and read about many others like Ben Franklin Scholars at Upenn.</p>
<p>The handful of take-aways I get are: </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Learning communities… high performing and highly capable students relate better and learn better surrounded by true academic peers.</p></li>
<li><p>Smaller classes that stress interdisciplinary approaches. Not a lot of teaching to the lowest common denominator in these small honors classes. Since subjects like Literature, History, Science, Politics and Philosophy, do not occur in a bubble, the freshman colloquium in an honors college usually ties things together.</p></li>
<li><p>Honors Thesis. Most honors college students will work in undergrad research and produce a real product of worth (I’m not sure what fine arts students do ?) </p></li>
<li><p>The perks, better more centralized housing, merit aid, early registration, the best profs, better access to faculty and advising resources.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>.</p>
<p>Perhaps the question really should be:</p>
<p>If a student chooses to attend a big school in an honors program as described here, would the same student choose the same big school if the honors program did not exist, or the student was not in the honors program? Assume that the cost is the same.</p>
<p>A possible variant of the question would be if the honors program did not exist, but honors courses were offered, open to all students.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus Answer to question 1: no way It seems like the goal for the school is to attract talented students and it is tough to fish without bait. If the honors courses were open wouldn’t you be concerned that students without the requisite ability would fill up and in turn wash out of those classes?</p>
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<p>Berkeley does not have a formalized honors program, although the math and physics departments offer honors courses. Seems to work fine there. Some other schools also have honors courses in the absence of a formalized honors program.</p>
<p>^you can’t use the best public university in the country as an example. Think of Chico State vs. Chico State Honors, Honors at CPP, or perhaps at UCSC or UCM or the special med cohort program at UCR. Or think UCB vs. UCM.
UCB is like a big honors college for the state of California, but without the perks (ie. better dorm, better advisers, smaller classes, etc :p)</p>
<p>A few decades ago, Berkeley was not especially difficult to get admitted to, except for a few popular engineering majors. But even then, there were honors math and physics courses that students could just sign up for, even though there was not a formalized honors program.</p>
<p>well, it was still the top flagship in CA, and before the 1990’s and a proposition that stopped good funding for public schools, secondary education in CA was among the best in the country so even if they admitted 50% from a crop of top applicants from excellent schools, it still made Berkeley the best public university in the country. So there was no need to attract top achievers. As for the perks of an Honors College, Berkeley no longer has the money to offer seminars for 20 students, better dorms, etc, etc. </p>
<p>I was in honors engineering at UT-Austin. From what I have heard, the program hasn’t changed much, except for the existence of honors housing. Civil engineering at UT was already ranked very highly. I would have gone there with or without the honors program. It turned out to be hard for me - all the people in my two honors physics classes were so blasted smart! So I had a rough start, but I ended up doing well. I really didn’t see a lot of advantages to honors, to be honest.</p>
<p>I’ve posted this before, but my very favorite class at UT turned out to be American History, with more than 300 students in it. It was probably my very largest class! The professor was an amazing story teller, though, and I couldn’t wait to get to class three times a week. He was always available during office hours. He tried to convince me to switch my major from engineering to history, but I declined. I was very proud of the A I got in the class, because he didn’t give many.</p>
<p>So just because a class is BIG doesn’t mean it’s low-quality. It really depends on the teacher and the TAs. I had a couple of tiny classes that were bleh.</p>
<p>Isn’t there a difference between an honors college and an honors program? It seems an honors college would offer its own degrees whereas an honors program would be more integrated into the overall university. </p>
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<p>That is a good question, but I am not sure there is a universal answer. Ds will be in an honors college, but within the honors college, he is also part of a selective honors program. The honors program is actually a minor while the honors college is meant to encompass the entire undergrad experience. </p>
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<p>Berkeley seems to have more frosh/soph seminars ( <a href=“http://fss.berkeley.edu/”>http://fss.berkeley.edu/</a> ) than it did a few deades ago. It also has built more dorms since then, and the new ones are apparently nicer than most of the old ones.</p>
<p>I think there are many factors that have led to the development of honors colleges. Economic times have made some prestigious colleges out of financial reach for high achieving students whose families have higher EFC’s but are not very wealthy. Honors programs/colleges at in state tution can provide more affordable opportunities. In some states such as Georgia and Florida, Hope scholarships and Bright Futures can make an in state college a very affordable choice. </p>
<p>For the student who likes the college, is interested in some of the academic programs there, then an honors program can provide a niche and peers for a studious student. Honors programs are different at each college, so a student has to consider how the university fits as a whole, and also the honors program. If honors housing is available, then this may provide a quieter more studious atmosphere to live in, and access to peers. </p>
<p>There are threads on CC comparing honors programs to highly prestigious colleges, and as a result some conclude that honors programs are inferior or some kind of hype. I don’t think they were designed to be imitations, but whole new opportunities available to good students in addition to their other options. If you want an Ivy, then the honors program isn’t an Ivy, because it’s different. Don’t compare apples to oranges. If you like the college, and the honors program, and it seems to fit you well, then it just might be the best place for you. </p>
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<p>Well, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, since I’ve been underwhelmed by many of the kids from DS’s school who have been admitted into Ivies-- quite a few development cases & famous lastname kids rather than the achievement/talent cream.</p>
<p>I think honors colleges are also a way for larger Us to attract students who want a more intimate learning atmosphere (those who would normally be looking at LACs).</p>
<p>Here’s an n=1 of an intelligent, pragmatic girl who attended Stony Brook in the Honors College. She had a great shot 10-30, but chose to apply to 1-10 + safeties, and was “shut out” (not really). She had a full ride as they offered it to intel seminalists a few years back (probably still do, didn’t check). </p>
<ul>
<li>Does not have any regrets</li>
<li>Says she loved her experience</li>
<li>Graduated with a 3.9something in a double major in applied math and econ</li>
<li>Made long-lasting friends in the small community and found it to be a very helpful set up, socially</li>
<li>1 year after graduation, entered the actuarial track at a life insurance company in NYC</li>
<li><p>I’d say she had a strong peer group based on what her best friends are doing now (they were not in her majors)</p></li>
<li><p>Says the honors courses were easy, and that most people expected good grades</p></li>
<li><p>Says she was challenged in one of her majors, but found the other one straightforward/not challenging (worth noting she was a top 20 student at one of the NYC specialized high schools)</p></li>
<li><p>Will not be touching any of the books she read in the honors seminars with a 10-foot pole again 
</p></li>
<li><p>Was not happy with the career services in her field, had to do something unrelated in the year following graduation (office job in NYC, but not in her desired field)</p></li>
</ul>
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<p>What the heck, here’s another one. I don’t know him as well. </p>
<p>Wealthy suburb, parents on the low end of the town’s income ie. can’t compete with all the full-payers, and are not getting much money, need wise. Goes to George Mason honors as an OOS student. Humanities and STEM double major. One of the most well read and intellectual people I have met thus far. Took on many jobs/internships while in college, seems to have always been “ahead of the curve,” does IT consulting and several projects on the side. Makes a very comfortable living and has a flexible schedule (unlike the I-banking crowd, with which I am quite familiar). Doesn’t regret his decision. </p>
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<p>Some students who attend honors colleges are students who also applied to Ivys- some with acceptances to them but considered the finances in their decisions. If you take a look at the credentials of some of the students in honors colleges, they are high achievers. However, honors colleges are niches in the larger school overall, and while they may have some opportunities like research programs, some honors courses, students in them are not isolated from the school as a whole. </p>
<p>I think it helps if the college fits the student well. By well, I mean that the student likes it, sees some programs there of interest, feels good about attending there, and enjoys being part of the student population. Can the student be happy saying “I go to college X” to people instead of feeling like “X isn’t the exclusive school I wanted”. If so, then an excellent student can be happy and thrive in a college honors program. </p>
<p>Some high achieving students are concerned that they are attending the same college as classmates that may not have worked as hard. They wonder what is the reward for their hard work, and that is admission to an honors program and being well prepared for it, and possibly some merit aid. The student will graduate with a diploma from the university as a whole, which may not be as big a name as an elite institution. So where does “prestige” come from, if there is any? I think it comes from the student making the most of the opportunities that an honors college offers such as research, mentoring, some honors classes, and doing well in a challenging major. As to rigor of classes, consider that an entry level class consists of students from many different schools and some are going to be more prepared than others. Upper division classes are composed of students who have generally done well in into classes. A very well prepared freshman may not be as challenged as some other students, but once past that the students in the class are more uniformly prepared, and rigorous subjects are demanding. </p>
<p>In general, colleges have statistics such as average SAT/ACT and GPA of honors students and where their graduates are. Employers and graduate programs who have admitted these students will have a general idea of their potential, but like most colleges, what you make of your potential plays a large role in how you do.
One can include the honors college as an option when applying to schools if they interest you. See if they fit you and then make a choice. </p>
<p>PL, what you describe is common where I live. Kids get into Ivies, parents panic over price, kids end up in state honors program. The state U lucks out. </p>
<p>Yes, the Thematic Options at USC(Southern Cal) offers small class size and rigorous reading and writing for D1. She found other students in non-honors classes not so smart as she put it. She didn’t pick her university because of the honors program, she was invited to attend, I think minimum was 2200 SAT to be invited.</p>
<p>I"m not a big fan of honors courses, which tends to separate a group of students from others, including the perks that may come for them like smaller classes, priority enrollment, etc. This would be reminiscent of high school, with geeks versus everyday students, AP students versus the rest. Some are bound for vocations certainly, but this country needs to pull up all its students. We don’t need colleges doing the same.</p>