<p>PG I don’t understand your reaction. I agree with you that failure to be admitted to HYPSM won’t ruin your life and that you are not doomed if you don’t get admitted. I don’t think I ever said or implied that. I was trying to say that there are very valid reasons for attending these schools and that these schools do in fact have an advantage in a worldwide marketplace. These valid reasons seemed to get dismissed with comments like impressing Joe the dryer cleaner. Again I simply don’t get where you are coming from because I think you already agreed that these schools have this advantage.</p>
<p>The only reason that those schools have the advantage in a global marketplace is that no one challenges the status quo and says, “Hey! These other schools are really great, too!” Because heaven forbid you’d actually ever say to someone who has got their mind set that HYPSM are the sun and the moon that they’re incorrect. Nope, can’t possibly do that. Make sure you dance around them and reinforce their perceptions; heaven forbid you challenge them somehow. It’s such deference to preconceived notions.</p>
<p>All these kids will get a second chance for HYPSM when they apply to graduate school.</p>
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<p>College admissions and major in China, Korea. and many other East Asian countries is almost completely determined by one’s score on the National College Entrance Exam. How one does in high school academically has little to do with it. If you’re a 4.0+ GPA student at a given high school, but scored too low to gain admission to a desired college/major or worse…any college…that 4.0 high school GPA won’t matter. It is one reason why many East Asian grad students I chatted with said most of their time in high school was devoted to studying topics covered in that exam in cram school/self-study and taking practice exams…not on their high school courses. </p>
<p>Also, it is an interesting discussion as the increasing interest in US institutions for undergrad is a great generational change. </p>
<p>A decade or more ago, it was often seen as a way to gain US residency for the immigrant-minded, a way for a given wealthy family to indulge a nonconformist child, and/or a way for children of wealthy families to gain a backdoor route to college admissions after performing poorly on their nation’s national college entrance exams*. </p>
<p>Back then, the preferred or “correct” route was to do one’s undergrad in one’s home country…preferably at their elite university and then come to the US for a graduate degree. This is still very much the case in Japan as the account of the Japanese Bucknell graduate who failed to land Japanese corporate jobs even with an elite Japanese Masters until he completed a second BA at UTokyo illustrates. </p>
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<li>From accounts of relatives who are familiar with the educational situation in both Chinas and East Asian grad students in fully funded PhD programs/visiting faculty who made snide comments about their fellow undergraduate nationals as “rich kids whose family wealth provided a backdoor to prestige when they couldn’t hack it on the national college entrance exam.” Granted, the ones making snide comments all have an obvious bias derived from having gone the “correct route” of doing undergrad at their nation’s top universities and then doing a fully funded PhD at a US university.</li>
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<p>Interestingly, that’s when the HYPSM prestige points REALLY count in those societies.</p>
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<p>Except that your attempts to influence hiring practices that currently overvalue HYPSM are unlikely to have any effect from the outside.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if you go to HYPSM and get hired into an investment bank, and later are in a position to hire, you might be able to send recruiters to (for example) Cal Poly, Virginia Tech, Penn State, etc. to hunt for recruits without having to compete so much against other investment banks that are all recruiting only at HYPSM.</p>
<p>Granted, the chance of that is pretty small, but higher than the zero chance of you having an influence if you never get hired at an investment bank because you did not go to HYPSM.</p>
<p>PG I dont understand why your posts, at least IMHO, have such sarcasm directed at HYPSM or posters who discuss the advantages of these schools. I understand and agree that going to HYPSM does not guaranty success. I also understand and agree that not going to these schools does NOT mean that one can not or will not be successful in the world market place or in life. I think you agree with the statement that a HYPSM graduate has an advantage in certain cultures and as Ucba has pointed out in certain other fields. I believe those advantages are important and should be recognized, not ridiculed. I think you believe otherwise. And for me thats ok that you believe otherwise. But why the derisive statements? May I take a page out of your book: The reason people go to HYPSM is to impress Joe the Dry Cleaner. The reason people go to HYPSM is to reinforce misconceptions. The reason that people go to HYPSM are that they are ignorant of all the other great schools in the US. Therefore there is no good reason why anyone would attend HYPSM.</p>
<p>If mainly internationals or immigrants focus on HYPSM, then I suspect that most of us on this thread are IorI or recent immigrants. I think that that assumption is wrong and we all value education highly and try to get the best deal possible for ourselves/our kids. With a $30-45 per hour tutoring income, these schools could be the cheapest.</p>
<p>[Amazon.com:</a> The Theory of the Leisure Class (9781461059868): Thorstein Veblen: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Leisure-Class-Thorstein-Veblen/dp/1461059860/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314362738&sr=8-1]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Leisure-Class-Thorstein-Veblen/dp/1461059860/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314362738&sr=8-1)</p>
<p>^ Our son was briefly quite intrigued by that guy’s theories, did a couple papers on him . . . we are definitely not of the leisure class, btw.</p>
<p>The theory of the leisure class does NOT apply to the leisure class, but to the upper middle class that has aspirations.</p>
<p>sidebar:
For all you who want to remember what a gerund is-- sing it to the tune of “Old McDonald had a Farm” : A gerund is a verb plus ING used as a noun.
OK now it will be stuck in your head forever.
Carry on</p>
<p>I disagree with that comment #332, that one shouldn’t raid their 401k’s or home equity to pay for college. I have a coworker that has a HUGE home and just recently paid $100,000 to upgrade her bathroom and then she tells me that she has no money to pay for her son’s education. She is looking for the cheapest option available to pay for her son’s education. I told her to take a home equity loan to pay for his education. She said, I have read you aren’t supposed to touch your home equity. I told her well did you save all these years for your son or did you spend it on your home? Case point! My point is that she should have had a smaller home and saved for college at the same time. These commentators are wrong in saying you shouldn’t touch your home equity. It all depends on the person. My opinion is simply, pay for the best education you can afford, afterall “you get what you pay for”. I would never send my child to a HUGE state school simply because it is cheaper. You need to realize it is way too big, they are taught by TA’s which is a scam and on top of that, they don’t want you there and they have a huge weed out process! So you end up paying for a year or two and then your child flunks out because of the weed out process (due to too many students). So you’ve wasted $30-60K on tuition and hurt your child’s self esteem in the process. Unbelievable. It is cheaper for a reason. Do your homework and you will see the differences between a smaller school and a huge state school.</p>
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<p>If you’re referring to all…I’m not sure that’s correct. There’s far too many parents and college kids who view a college education mostly/solely as a means to be “branded” with the correct credential for a highly paid/prestigious job…actual education and intellectual development be damned. Some with such attitudes exist here on CC, moreso in the larger American society, and from what I’ve observed in both Chinas and heard from friends in other East Asian countries…is even worse over there. </p>
<p>Don’t get some older relations started on their rants on how current East Asian students have lost sight of the true purposes of a college education. Ironically, they’re the ones who were not only open-minded enough…but also aware of the US educational landscape to actually encourage me and a younger cousin to apply/enroll at LACs.</p>
<p>“If you’re referring to all…I’m not sure that’s correct. There’s far too many parents and college kids who view a college education mostly/solely as a means to be “branded” with the correct credential for a highly paid/prestigious job…actual education and intellectual development be damned. Some with such attitudes exist here on CC, moreso in the larger American society”</p>
<p>-Who are we to judge others and thier goals? While I do not share in this and both of my kids went to state UGs and accomplished their ultimate goals beyond expectations, I see that others have different goals and set of values. They are not right or wrong because they are different form me. Does it make them inferior in your view? Why? Some drive Mercedes and others are much more in love with Audi or GM truck. So, GM truck owners should label others as arrogant? Well, I guess, they can, but it is more reflection on them than people who they label. Maybe we should be more accepting of each other? I mean within legal limits, we should not be accepting of crime, but no crime was committed by either side.</p>
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<p>As evidenced by common postings like the following:</p>
<p>High school student: “Is my schedule rigorous enough to get admitted to [selective university]? Should I take AP [whatever] instead of honors [whatever]?”</p>
<p>compared to:</p>
<p>Incoming freshman at some university: “I got a 5 on AP Calculus BC. Should I take Calculus 1 for an easy A?”</p>
<p>(Granted, academic sandbagging for GPA is effectively encouraged by medical and law school admission practices that consider GPA without considering the context of course rigor; if university freshman admissions can consider the context of course rigor, why can’t medical and law school admissions?)</p>
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<p>I was addressing lake42ks’ assertion that “we all value education highly”. That’s not always true from what I’ve observed in the US and both Chinas and from what I heard from East Asian grad students who spent most of their educational lives in their respective countries’ educational systems. In short, not everyone values education highly. </p>
<p>Heck, I see this split even within my own family. Have an aunt and uncle who take the college solely as credentialing mechanism view and gave their two daughters…one of whom went to State UG honors a hard time because they were interested in actually getting a good education and intellectual development while earning that BA/BS. They viewed their daughters’ desires for a better education beyond what’s relevant for careers as a “waste of time”. Fortunately, both daughters have long since proven their parents wrong as both are highly successful professionals and are going to make sure their kids aren’t going to be inculcated with the “college solely as credentialing mechanism” view.</p>
<p>Yeah, mini, like I said I am definitely not of the leisure class. Good for you for reading the book! It’s made the rounds in our household.</p>
<p>“But again, you’re stretching the argument too thin. I agree Quinnipiac doesn’t offer the same educational experience as Yale down the street”</p>
<p>My DD will be starting classes on Monday at RPI. I respect it pretty highly, as I am sending her there. There are at least two kids from China on her hall, so they do manage to get international students.</p>
<p>OTOH if some overseas family said they would send a kid to MIT, say, but not RPI, because of MIT’s greater recognition in their home country, I would find that totally understandable.</p>
<p>I really do not see benefits one over another. The most important is a kid to be at place that matches him/her well, has terrific 4 years of his young life and achieve his/her goal, which might change during 4 years in UG. If for some, it is important to be at Harvard to get most satisfaction and others feel great going to CC, who cares? Why this is so important for the rest of us? Some people have unlimited resources (almost, I would correct), they do not care about future proffessional job, others do not care about UG too much because they think about Med. School, I mean people have different reasons for being typed up and creative about classes that they take. It should mean a hoop to the rest of us.<br>
Well, I am missing something here, for sure. Because I have no idea why some here think that padding classes encouraged by Med. School, they believe that Med. School applicants are not deserving. Sorry to dissapoint, this is very far from being true, actually very opposite of this assumption.</p>
<p>“The only reason that those schools have the advantage in a global marketplace is that no one challenges the status quo and says, “Hey! These other schools are really great, too!””</p>
<p>Maybe…but there’s probably a small and finite number of schools that can have great global brands, just as there’s a small and finite number of soft drinks, movie stars, or shoe designers that have great global brands. There just isn’t room for that many Angelina Jolies in everyone’s consciousness around the world, even with people saying “Rachel Weisz is a great movie star, too!” If one brand starts to fade, another can take its place, but it’s rare for 30 brands to share the top of the marketplace, even when their products are equal.</p>