<p>The approach of teaching AB Calculus in one year and then teaching the remaining topics in BC Calculus in a second year seems like a good idea.</p>
<p>I have heard from high school math teachers that it is quite difficult to get through the entire BC Calculus curriculum in one year, especially since the AP test is given a month or so before the end of the spring semester. </p>
<p>Offering calculus to most students as a two-year course seems to make a lot of sense.</p>
<p>Because we are on a block schedule, ALL math classes are ONE semester! So Calc BC is taught in the spring only. The kids don’t take Calc AB before BC, it is an either/or. Although, they do take Calculus (a non AP class) during the fall before either AP offering.</p>
<p>Marian – I have been told the opposite several times in that BC is supposed to incorporate a lot of AB and less time is needed for BC.</p>
<p>I never took calculus, almost failed algebra and geometry. I have successfully done all the bookkeeping for our family for over 30 years, and for a couple of private organizations, so I am using basic math pretty regularly. I have no formal accounting training. One of my kids taught me to use excel over the phone.</p>
<p>My impression, based on one child’s experience and that of his friends and what they tell me:</p>
<p>For the most part math education, in public schools, in this country is really lousy and students aren’t well prepared to go forward in their studies.</p>
<p>What we consider acceleration is what other parts of the world consider average pace.</p>
<p>We aren’t educating students for what will be useful. The future mathematicians are being unnecessarily held back. Carpenters could use some useful geometry. Most people could use statistics just to understand the news. Most probably don’t need calculus but if they do, they can study it at any time in later life.</p>
<p>my view :)</p>
<p>IMHO kids are being pushed ahead to look good on college applications. Middle school math is a set of important stepping stones that set up the high school math curriculum. If a student is not in the high math in middle school, then that student will not make it to calculus in high school. IMHO kids are rushing through math with no interest for or love for or even aptitude in the subject just to look good on paper. (Not all kids, obviously, but we are talking about the trend here and I think the trend is to push kids to look better on paper for college app’s.) The kids who will do well in math in college or even get a degree in math (DS did) might look mediocre on paper in the subject but might just want to take a subject they like at a slower more reasonable pace. IMO calculus can wait ‘till college (horrors!). DH, an engineer whose degree is from a tippy top school never had calc ‘til college. The world is a changin’. When DS’ high school guidance counselor was told DS had graduated with a degree in math she did a double take. It’s just not what the current system is wired to believe.</p>
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<p>In my kids’ former school district, if you weren’t in the top math group (of three) in first grade, you probably weren’t going to catch up without some major parental intervention.
And of course those in the top group had already benefited from parental intervention :)</p>
<p>In our district, similar to blueiguana, kids are tracked beginning in 6th grade based on standardized test scores, a diagnostic test, and grades (teacher recommendation is not considered–too many teachers were getting pressured by parents for recommendations, so they took that out of the equation). A complicated rubric is used for math placement, and there is no appeal process. You can either be skipped 2 years ahead, 1 year ahead, or stay on grade level (2 years ahead would have you completing BC calc in 11th grade). It amounts to about 1 (fewer than 20 kids) class a year per middle school being skipped 2 years, and 3 classes being skipped 1 year, out of of total of, my guess is, 11-13 math classes total. It is very difficult to move up a track (there is an additional rubric and petition process for that), and you must maintain 80 or above to continue on your track. Parents don’t love it–many feel their kids should be on a higher track but don’t qualify based on the rubric. You can’t be placed on a higher track just because the parent or student wants to. My 2 Ds were on grade level, which was absolutely where they belonged. My S is in 6th grade and on the middle track. I was surprised he didn’t make the highest track–but his 5th grade teacher told me, even if he qualified, I should carefully consider it–she didn’t feel he had the emotional maturity to move up that fast. So far he is thriving on the middle track. I ultimately decided that whether he took calc his junior or senior year would not make a significant difference in his life, and there was no point in rushing him. </p>
<p>My sister, who lives in a different state, tells me that her school district is pushing kids ahead–basically making the default track the 11th grade precalc, and 12th grade calculus track, and the “grade level” track almost like a remedial track. She says some parents are not happy about this; they feel like they are pushing the kids too hard, too soon.</p>
<p>I do think that many(not all) kids are pushed ahead in math without understanding basic concepts. In my opinion, if a kid doesn’t really understand algebra, everything that comes after is going to be extremely difficult. However, I think a lot of parents like to say that their kid is taking geometry in 8th grade.</p>
<p>In addition, I think a lot of courses that are called “Algebra II” or whatever course title are not really that advanced. I have a friend whose kid took algebra II in high school and got an A, but had to take remedial math at a community college. This is addressed in this article in the New York Times <a href=“As H.S. Course Titles Become Inflated, Test Scores Fail to Follow - The New York Times”>As H.S. Course Titles Become Inflated, Test Scores Fail to Follow - The New York Times;
<p>At my kids school, calculus AB and BC are offered, but it’s an either or. My understanding is that AB is a semester of college calculus offered in a year and BC is a year of college calculus covered in a year, so I’m not sure why, as Geminimom says, BC calculus should take less time to teach than AB.</p>
<p>I have been wondering about this. My hs senior is in bc calc and says it’s mostly freshmen and sophomores in her class. What is the big need to move so quickly? She is really enjoying the class but says a lot of the kids in there are really stressed. I can’t help wonder why the parents and schools are encouraging the nuclear arms race of college math classes in high school, or even middle school. They say Einstein was a C student in math. I think there 's something to be said about slowing it down a bit. I wonder if we are going to end up actually losing some potential creative genius math minds by putting them on such a treadmill so early. There’s something to be said about letting a really talented kid sit and noodle a bit without pressure.</p>
<p>In our district kids take a Algebra placement test in 7th grade. D1 missed the cut by 3 points was going to be placed in 8th grade math instead of Alg, even though she had an A in 7th grade math. We complained, said we would hire a tutor if needed , etc and they relented. She received A’s in all of her HS math classes. D2 was always a math whiz, able to solve simple math equations before she could read. Math was always hit or miss through elementary school. Most of the time we sent something for her to do. In middle school we finally found an accelerated program summer program administered by a university and we sent her for three summers. She took Alg1, Alg2/Trig and Chemistry. This forced the school to advance her in math because she had received credit for the courses. After fighting with middle school administration for 3 years, imagine my surprise when she came home on her 2nd day of high school and told me that her Math Analysis teacher was going to move her to Calc AB. No phone calls, emails asking me if this was even OK. On the 4th day of school, the teacher was apparently impatient with the pace of things and physically walked her over to the Calc class. She was the first freshman ever to take Calc that anyone could remember. Every year since there has been one or two freshman in Calc. </p>
<p>I believe that if my daughter had not been as successful as she was ,the middle school would have continued to prevent some of their brightest kids from advancing. In our area middle schools seem to focus much more on the social aspects/self esteem issues that come with puberty and academics take a back seat.</p>
<p>“What we consider acceleration is what other parts of the world consider average pace.”</p>
<p>I have to take issue with this. The OP asks if math students are being pushed too far. In our public school, if a student is not keeping up with the advanced track, which I feel is quite good (listed above) they can take a lower track. My S has been on the advanced track. Scored a 760 on math SAT. I do not think his public HS education is “average” compared to the rest of the world.</p>
<p>The number of children taking algebra in 7th grade in our town has probably increased by a factor of 4 over the last decade. I’d say it is partially due to demographic change, in that the majority of the district’s population growth has consisted of people of East Asian ancestry. Asians tend to really emphasize math and enroll their children in math class outside of school (signs advertising Vedic math are all over the district as we speak). Thus the district is providing for the fact that many kids are entering 7th grade more than ready for algebra. Some of them would have made it in anyway, but many wouldn’t have. The latter were only able to pass the screening test because they had been pre-taught. My husband comes from a country where all the children take algebra at that age whether they are “ready” or not, so he would agree that this is a difference between the US and other countries.</p>
<p>Whether or not the child can breeze through math and truly belongs on that advanced track, it is very important s/he be there regardless if s/he or his/her parents have any aspirations of top college admission. All the high school science classes are linked to one’s math level, regardless of whether that actually makes sense. For example, a student certainly needs a strong math background to take AP Physics BC, but not so much for AP Bio. Still, no student who isn’t on an advanced math track has a shot of getting into AP Bio. The demand is too great for that class and the “smarter” kids get preference.</p>
<p>Therefore, parents are pushing to prevent their kids from being shut out at age 12 from college prep classes. I, for one, pushed for my youngest to be placed in Algebra in 7th. I don’t think she belongs there with respect to natural ability, and her screening test scores were lower than they should have been. But while I am concerned about her future high school course opportunities, I mostly made the decision because normal grade level math just keeps reviewing the same things over and over until the kid finally makes it into Algebra. My friend’s children are doing in 7th grade regular math the same things they did in 6th grade. My D is not neurotypical and needs to be challenged forward or she slides backward. There are other parents who probably pushed for the same reason–the kids weren’t going to learn anything new for another year or two if they didn’t.</p>
<p>prefect – I did not take my Calculus until college so I am no expert, but it is my understanding AB is comparable to a 1-semester class and BC equivalent to a 1-year class. Since BC includes all the content of AB (review if you’ve already had AB?) and introduces new content, shouldn’t that require less time if you’ve completed both classes?</p>
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I never had Geometry at all and I have a Master’s degree in math. Not saying THAT’S the best way to go. :)</p>
<p>I don’t really know why the path always seems to include Calculus (maybe trying to prepare those potential engineers?). I agree with those who would encourage Stats instead for some, or offer courses in some of the other very interesting math topics. One possibility seems to be that most high school math teachers are lacking in skills in those other subfields themselves and are thus not prepared to teach them. D (junior) is in pre-calculus honors now, but we don’t know whether she will survive it (hates math). S made it through Calc AB, got a 5 and college credit, and is probably done. He liked math ok, but found calc rather painstaking.</p>
<p>Geminimom,
I see what you’re saying now. However, most schools that I’m familiar with you take either AB or BC. AB is not a pre requisite for BC and the kids take one or the other.</p>
<p>^Most of the districts in our area and some of the private schools as well, offer AB and then BC.</p>
<p>Our current hs offers through multivariate calculus. </p>
<p>It was pretty standard with my younger one’s cohort for the stronger students to start algebra in sixth grade.</p>
<p>I question the acceleration. But my kids aren’t math prodigies. They don’t just do math for the joy of doing math. I know there are kids like that. Mine just generally took whatever the challenge was and as the pace quickened with my younger one’s cohort she kept up but I wonder what was really served by all the hurry.</p>
<p>Ohiomom: A quick google search turned up the following. I don’t know if it is relevant. There is lots more info at the site.</p>
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</code></pre>
<p>[Highlights</a> From the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) 2003](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2005/timss03/math1.asp]Highlights”>Highlights From the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) 2003)</p>
<p>prefect – interesting that your school offers either AB/or BC. Ours typically offers AB as the most advanced choice because there are not usually enough interested students left to take BC senior year. It would make sense that BC without AB would necessitate more time.</p>
<p>The Math curriculum is a hot topic in GA public schools. My freshman college D was the last grade with the " traditional" sequencing. Alg 1 in 8th, Geom 9th, Alg 2, 10th, Analysis (pre calc) 11th, she also took AP stats and then AP Calc as a senior. Worked great and she is in a Calc 2400 course in college and loving it.</p>
<p>The year behind her moved to " integrated math". The accelerated kids took Math 1 in 8th grade, Math 11 in 9th and Math 111 in 10th… you can see where this is going . Junior year they took either AB or BC Calc and then what. There was a lot of scrambling to offer kids a Math class for their senior year. In our county you have to take a math class every year to graduate. We now have a few kids in a multi variable Calc class as seniors.</p>
<p>The county did a re think and are now offering “discrete” Math, instead of the integrated Math 1, 11 or 111. Kinda like returning to the way my older D studied Math. My 9th grader has been caught up in this mess. Since she didn’t " accelerate" in middle school( our choice) , she is now basically doing Alg1 and half of Geom 1 in 9th, then in 10th she will finish Geom and study Alg 11 and so on to get caught up so she has the option of taking AP calc as a senior.</p>
<p>What a mess and the parents and students are very confused. And, we have a bunch of kids struggling in Math because they missed some of the basics with the integrated approach.</p>