We recently visited, and D took two classes, visited a friend in the dorm, took an admitted students tour, ate on campus (and off), and met with students in her department. She loved the history of the place, and found most of campus lovely, and certainly many students were obviously happy and engaged.
However… Not once, but FOUR times while we were on campus I witnessed separate small groups of Cal students behave in outright mean ways. Twice our tours were disrupted by a group of students plowing right thru the middle of the group making loud and mocking comments. Later, a group of students I was walking behind were very loudly and cruelly insulting prospective students and finding that just hilarious, and finally I watched a group of 3 males yell at a female jogger that she should stop before she hurt herself given the size of her thighs.
I get that it is the middle of the tour season, and no doubt that gets tiresome. And this sort of thing no doubt has occurred elsewhere. But… in all the dozens of campuses we have toured, I’ve never seen it, much less 4 times. And yes, I do think it speaks to some students lack of happiness on campus, and no sense of community or responsibility to one’s classmates. D has friends that are enjoying their time there, and other students were very helpful, but it was a pretty big flashing red warning for her.
Check whether those stories are from pre-med or pre-undergraduate-business students, who face highly competitive weed-out processes (although for pre-med, that applies everywhere to some extent).
UCSB and Washington without CS direct admission should be avoided for a student who does not want to have to compete for entry into the major (it is a highly competitive process to get into CS at both schools).
@carlsbaddad my son is an EECS freshmen and I specifically asked him yesterday after reading all the posts if people help each other and focus on team work ? He replied yes people definitely help each other. So here’s one answer from someone who’s living it now. I am sure, however, if you ask 10 people, you will get 10 different answers. Good luck !
My daughter is a Haas undergrad student. The pre-Haas classes are not uber competitive. Sure, its a competitive environment with lots of smart kids who work hard, but they manage to spend lots of time on ECs and with friends. Admission to Haas is based on GPA, ECs and essays 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 weighting. There is grade deflation, but everyone is aware of it. People definitely raise each other’s game, but it’s not full of depressed kids. That said, there aren’t enough mental health services on any campus these days, Cal is no exception.
@divarose That’s kind of shocking, actually. During most campus tours we’ve kind of been ignored, except at Cal Poly where everyone was greeting us and shouting ‘go to cal poly!’ as we walked by. I’ve never felt animosity from students though. (We never toured Cal).
@ucbalumnus seeing that the data doesn’t include most of the “weed out” classes (all of those are 3.0 or below, physics, math, etc. ) it only includes actual dept classes which mostly occur in the upper division. Can see the data being accurate in that case. Most upper division classes tend to hand out As and Bs AFTER you make it through the grinder.
UCB engineering has direct admission to major, and does not intentionally weed out students with high GPA requirements like Purdue, Wisconsin, Texas A&M, etc… UCB engineering students just need to pass their courses with C grades and 2.0 GPA to stay in the major.
Common lower division non-engineering courses taken by UCB engineering majors and percentage earning B+ or higher / B or higher, from https://www.berkeleytime.com/grades/ :
48%/61% Math 1A
44%/58% Math 1B
42%/56% Math 53
44%/59% Math 54
39%/57% Physics 7A
40%/56% Physics 7B
36%/57% Chemistry 1A
76%/90% Chemistry 1AL
71%/88% English R1A
75%/89% English R1B
Even though the percentage of grades which are B+ or higher is lower than 50% in most of these courses, the majority are still B or higher. (Note: average (mean) grade may be pulled below 3.0 because the D/F grades pull the mean down more than A grades pull it up.)
Now, if you are a non-pre-med who is unhappy or depressed because you got a B in college, then you may need to reconsider your expectations. It is not like UCB is the only place where a college student may earn a B grade.
You know what’s great about Berkeley? We don’t hide our issues. We embrace how difficult our school is. We’re proud of it. Expressing stress is a stress reliever. You bond over having a lot of work and working on it together. You should have seen our lounge last night. There were like 14 people in it. Coolest thing ever.
Everyone knows all of Berkeley’s issues. They’re out there in the open. You can prepare for them. UCLA and the rest of them, you have no idea what you’re going to hate about them, you’re going in blind. Berkeley all of the rumors are worse than than the actual experience. (Seriously. We have to work on our PR).
I’m Econ/ sort of Pre-Haas. I’m taking most of the same classes as pre-Haas people. They’re not cutthroat. Classes are just difficult. Honestly, no one studies for Econ 1. That’s why the test averages are 50% (in which case 50% is a B), so if you study a bit you’re fine. Also pre-med (I’ll have to choose Haas or pre-med at some point). Those classes are good. I’m in Bio 1B. Lots of group projects. Lots of group projects in Econ 1 too. So you collaborate, not compete. Relax people. College is great. Just like high school but with more lecturing. Labs are fun.
@divarose : Are you sure they were Cal students? It’s an open campus surrounded by Berkeley. In any event, sounds to me more like the behavior of jerks rather than a response to stress.
@AboutTheSame I’m certain 3 of the 4 groups were students (leaving buildings with backpacks, etc), but the last group was in the plaza and could have been from off campus. I don’t think so though… one had greek letters on.
It was definitely disturbing, and something I’d not encountered before. But I agree with a previous statement that Cal does not hide it’s issues, and so there shouldn’t be any big surprises.
Berkeley High is very close by and high school students can be little idiots as we all know. I can’t imagine Cal students doing such childish stuff, almost all are too busy struggling with grades. The rowdy ones tend to hang out over at Clark-Kerr, far away.
Cal is a public university so all the noise and destroying property and the like are not Cal students. They are the general public who bring their issues onto campus.
Have to laugh about rowdy students at Clark-Kerr. No, my freshman picked Clark Kerr esp to get away from the rowdy freshmen who occupy the Units (1,2, 3, 4). True, the football team is at Clark Kerr, but Helen Keller Hall for example is like a convent, so quiet.
I also think UCBMFET has given everyone impression that everyone going there is stressed and unhappy because it doesn’t pull any punches. Maybe Cal is just expressing aloud what some kids at other schools are thinking about their own experiences. Our first visit to the campus included a dude sporting a man bun and a sarong doing yoga on the lawn, so for all of the pressure, there’s definitely a hippie vibe running through that campus (one word: llamas). For all of the tough weeder classes my STEM D has taken/is taking where she literally has no idea what the heck a 68% on a midterm means other than is it above the standard deviation, she’s also had classes she aced with a reasonable amount of work and that she really enjoyed. I just think that there are a lot of kids with very high expectations of themselves (or parental expectations) that all wind up in the same place and are forced to duke it out for grades and suddenly don’t feel so smart. Welcome to the world.
There’s only 2 Football players at Clark Kerr (maybe 4). But we do have the whole Rugby and Rowing teams.
What is Helen Keller Hall? Never heard of it. Not in Clark Kerr. We have numbers. Bldg 2, 3, 4, 11, 12, 7, 8, 9, 16, 17.
I believe there was a Helen Keller Building back when it was the California School for the Deaf. Would not surprise me if the name has survived unofficially, if not officially.
My son is a freshman at Cal. Says half his fraternity brothers are engineering majors. They al work together, study together and have a lot of fun together. It seems very very accepting from what i have heard. I am shocked at the rude behavior someone posted about their tour. From what I have seen its very live and let live.