@huntmich1
NW yes, Brown, Cornell not so much. However These three are traditionally harder to get into than UMich so I would wait for the results in March first.
@VANDEMORY1342 what makes NU’s Weinberg College of Arts and Sciences better than Brown?
I really think it depends a lot on how strong the student is, what their interests are and how involved they are. I would want to provide a lot of information to consider, but let her make the decision.
If she gets admitted to Ross, I think Michigan is great. For Grad school, Michigan is excellent too.
For Arts and Sciences, if it were me, I would choose Cornell, Northwestern, or Brown.
Cornell, Northwestern, and Brown will also introduce her to more students from the coasts. Michigan gets 1/2 of its students from Michigan.
If she likes to get involved in a lot of activities, then I think Brown, Cornell and Northwestern may have better resources and access with their smaller size.
I know a few Northwestern students who visited friends at Michigan multiple times. They were all impressed with how much fun Ann Arbor is (Evanston is really nice, but it’s not geared towards college students), and how there seemed to be a lot of all kinds of students (nerds, jocks, fratty types, neo-hippie types, small-town kids, etc.). Whereas Northwestern leans strongly towards the wealthy nerd type, especially among the males.
“what makes NU’s Weinberg College of Arts and Sciences better than Brown?”
Knowing students at all four schools, I would agree that NU is the best of the four for undecided but Brown is different than the other three wrt their open curriculum, pass/no-credit and grade inflation. The other three you’re going to work hard and be pushed, esp NU and Cornell. That being said I would put UM’s econ program as good as the three if not better.
Not sure to which poster the above question is directed, but I think that the first concern is getting admitted to either school. Next, one should consider each campus culture as Brown is more liberal & very concerned with “political correctness” to the extent that several Brown profs are concerned with interference with the academic mission. (There are several YouTube videos worth watching.) These are both extraordinary schools but with their own cultures.
An important difference might be regarding academic pressure or intensity which is elevated at NU and much more relaxed at Brown due to Brown’s grading options (unlimited pass/fail & contract grades) which is designed to encourage students to stretch their areas of academic exposure without fear of harming one’s GPA.
In an earlier post, a longtime poster referred to the “Ivy notorious for its poor preparation of students for medical school”. I have no idea to which Ivy that poster was referring but would be interested to know the source.
Northwestern academics are strong especially economics & pre-med, but really across the board.
SESP is one of a kind.
If you get accepted, then you need to visit each school as the campus cultures are quite different, in my opinion.
Facilities upkeep is another issue to investigate.
It only matters if the money matters to you the parent: if money doesnt matter then she can pick her personal preference. If money matters at all then I would pick the best value overall.
@Publisher only 100 a year are admitted to SESP, yes? 160 a year to Medill? she was intrigued with SESP but didn’t want to ruin her chances. I don’t think NU is like Michigan, where you get admitted first to the big arts & sciences college, THEN the small more selective colleges look at your app.
How does a 17 year old demonstrate the interest need to get into SESP? is it more or less a dept of ed and education think tank factory?
Yes, SESP is very sophisticated/advanced at what it does. Some ED grad programs have equated a degree from SESP to be the equivalent of earning both a BA & MA during undergrad.
Essays & any demonstrated interest. Researching the school may trigger an interest that can be shared via essay. Awareness of the school, I think, is a key.
Flexibility to also major in any discipline in the arts & sciences, but not vice-versa.
A decade ago, my son was asked to enroll there without applying during accepted students weekend. He stayed in the School of Communications & tripled majored with two programs from the arts & sciences college. He wanted to get theatre out of his system, so he couldn’t do both. Somewhat regret it now. Must have been something in his application that triggered the school’s (SESP) interest. We don’t really know.
@Publisher does SESP release freshman class profile? does it still work that way in NU admissions where multiple colleges see your application and can extend an invitation? daughter was a little anxious filling out NU’s app as it seemed very college specific and those colleges are tiny.
No & it never did work that way. For some reason they just took an interest in him & invited him to consider enrolling in SESP.
You might be able to get an admitted freshman profile, but it might not help as many top scorers are outright rejected. The degree gets a lot of interest. Would pair well with a Harvard Doctorate that is, at least was, tuition free. But that would require a few years of work experience after earning one’s undergraduate degree.
My main concern is to give your daughter options–as she could add up to two other majors in Weinstein College of Arts & Sciences–while having a highly sought after degree which offers several career paths.
NU is really good at working with students after admission if they want to switch colleges. But SESP is special; it is like a close small group with ability to enjoy all that a wealthy , prestigious large university offers.
This is not in any way meant to discourage you from the University of Michigan–which is a big deal, in my estimation, and a world of opportunities, The Ross School of Business is among the top 3 in the country.
Everyone I know that has attended or has kids at Brown & Cornell love them.
Whoever selected your daughter’s targets did an outstanding job.
Ross has a gym in the the building, just for business students and staff. She has selected all cold weather schools, all excellent. If Ross is indeed $20-40K less, it is the best value of the group.
Ross is not of any value at all if she is “wholly undecided,” as the OP said. It’s a very bad idea to apply to a specialized program just because it’s “prestigious.” The Ross gym is not a reason to choose it. And BTW, you still have to pay for that gym.
I also have a strong opinion about a PUBLIC university maintaining a superior gym facility that’s restricted to certain students.
What if a donor gave UMich the money for a Ross gym ? Michigan is a very wealthy university–among the top 10 largest endowments.
In 2004, Stephen Ross donated $100,000,000 (one hundred million dollars) to the business school. No state money involved. No need for anyone to pay for the new building & gym & a lot more since Mr. Ross gave more than enough to cover everything.
If you can afford that $5-10k per year extra easily, then you should focus on how the school, fit the student (size, location, class size, etc), the quality of the major/program and how easy to declare that, 4 year graduation rate, sophomore return rate, and other factors. My D choose UMich over NU for engineering at $2-5k less per year. She did not like the NU campus after the visit and there is no real advantage for her to pick NU over UMich in her engineering field. Same for Ross, even without the gym. LOL
I don’t care that Mr. Ross donated the money to cover the gym. It’s a public university. The optics of a deluxe gym that restricts membership on the campus of a public university are terrible. And I have a child in that school.
“Ross is not of any value at all if she is “wholly undecided,” as the OP said. It’s a very bad idea to apply to a specialized program just because it’s “prestigious.” The Ross gym is not a reason to choose it. And BTW, you still have to pay for that gym…”
Exept for the fact that Michigan has no academic weakness. Very few schools in the country can say that. These schools are all peers.
Who cares about the optics of the gym? It is very convenient and saves the students schlepping to the IM or CCRB, which are another 10 min walk away. The reason it is restricted is that it is fairly small and could not accommodate a large number of students.