<p>I don’t know of any need blind/meet full need schools that put legacy status among their most important admissions factors. Per the Common Data Set, the strongest consideration I’ve seen given to legacy is “considered”. Academics is always given far more weight (except for Harvard, which just says that everything is “considered”, which I think is hilarious ). </p>
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<p>Legacy does not mean loaded. It doesn’t even always mean full-pay. Legacy isn’t a big admissions hook; some schools that consider it will only do so when a student applies EA or ED. </p>
<p>Being a big donor is a hook. So-called developmental admits at need-blind/meet full need schools are being courted because their families are going to be making multiple donations in the 6 to 7 figure range. And yes, admitting those students does bring more money to the school. Some of that money goes to help support the school being able to be one of the few that are need-blind/meet full need.</p>
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<p>I’m truly sorry that your D wasn’t admitted to her top two choices. One thing that stuns me every year here on CC is looking at the profiles of who was admitted and who wasn’t at highly competitive schools. There are just so many strong kids out there…it’s impossible for them all to be admitted.</p>
<p>UVA specifically lays out that alumnae/relations, race/ethnicity, are more important for admissions than test scores, talent, character and a number of other things. It in the common data sets that UVA puts together. Idiocy, I believe, and I don’t think they operate that way, but it’s right out there. And they are a public university, need blind and say they meet 100% of need. Take a look yourself at [Common</a> Data Set: Institutional Assessment and Studies, University of Virginia](<a href=“http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/datacatalog/cds/admission.shtm]Common”>http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/datacatalog/cds/admission.shtm).</p>
<p>I’ve found many schools with **** eyed Common Data Set info. They should really take a look at what they have there. But defining most important, very important, important and not important in the admissions process is difficult to quantify. If a school is not need blind for instance, how important is it that an applicant need financial aid? What % of a school is legacy,and how do their numbers fare when compared to the rest of the applicant pool? When it comes down to it, when one has holistic admissions which adcoms love, it’s difficult to say what counts more than another factor.</p>
<p>There was an admission director who was bragging some years ago how they even turn down people that the board of trustees or the president of the school advocate. Maybe so, but the jerk was blowing a lot of air because I was personally involved in an applicant whose decision got reversed when an outraged prof with some celebrity standing marched into the admissions office and collared that very director. I had the privilege of watching on screen, the change in the applicants status. So, yes, though having an “in” with someone on the board may not help, if that board member should huff and puff and take admissions to task, it will.</p>
<p>If you look at a number of schools with this info categorized, you’ll see a lot of conflicting info and it will not apply to individuals. I think UVA does need to examine its values if that info is indeed correct and change the info if it is not.</p>
<p>cpt, VADAD, that’s fascinating about UVA. I’m almost tempted to call them to ask if they really consider legacy more than test scores. </p>
<p>Meeting full need: let’s be a little narrower here, and stipulate that meeting full need with big hunks of loans isn’t meeting the spirit of the definition. Does UVA meet that definition? College Navigator doesn’t show them giving out a lot of institutional grant aid.</p>
<p>SlitheyTove, Be sure to report back what they say if you do happen to call! I know they do put out of state legacies in the in state pool for evaluation so maybe that’s why they feel they need to say it is very important. In reality, for most legacies ,it may be considered but not much more. I know the fact that my instate son wasn’t a legacy did make us a little nervous when he applied but it did work out for him. In general, I do think that legacy should be at most “considered” in admissions ,especially for a public school. UVa does receive donations from many alumni so I think they do at least consider legacy .
In terms of aid,I believe UVa does cap loans. I don’t really know how their aid works but they do have the ACCESS UVa program and info about it should be on UVa’s website.</p>
<p>UVA is a chimera of a public school. First of all, the way things are in the state of VIrginia, there is a lot of preselection that occurs even before they get their applications. I have two nieces in VA, and neither of them even bothered to apply to UVA because they knew right up front that they had little or no chance of acceptance. The direct statistical link between income and academic accomplishment/test scores makes it pretty much a given, that a large number of the applicants are from well to do families. VA in state costs are lower than private school prices, so they are not going to be hit with the same sort of need that other schools of their calibre are since the taxpayers of the state subsidize this school so much as they do for all of the VA public schools. </p>
<p>But as I stated earlier, a lot of what is in that common data set is bunk. I’ve seen some truly ridiculous priorities listed. I think Seton Hall used to take the cake. Maybe they’ve changed theirs, but it truly made no sense, especially in line with their mission statement which directly contradicted what they then put down as important. I don’t know who puts together that information; it may not even be admissions, but I’ve admonished UVA on the board where Dean J is active about this. Whether they care to change it or not, we’ll see. Whether it’s true or not, on an overall and consistent basis, I don’t think so. </p>
<p>But do read a number of other schools’ lists of what they consider most important and not. UVA is not the only one with info that raises questions.</p>
<p>Dean J, has posted about legacies on her blog. UVa admits legacy applicants at about the same rate as they admit Virginians. They deny many legacy applicants each year. It may say on the website that legacy is very important, but it doesn’t seem to be the case for in-state candidates. According to the Alumni Liason dept, legacies must be just as highly qualified as all the other candidates. VADAD1, I honestly don’t think that legacy applicants affected your daughter’s application in any way.</p>
<p>UVa considers OOS legacies in the same way it consideres in staters. The fact that they deny many legacy applicants means nothing. The question is whether the fact that they say on the common data set which is information the school itself provides, that being a legacy is one of the most important things in terms of admissions, being in the most important category is accurate. They rate it above a person’s characters, talents and test scores. If this is incorrect, they should change the information, right? </p>
<p>THat legacies get a bump in the process means that as a group they must not be as highly qualified as other like candidates that are non legacies. If you have seen the studies that have just been released about legacy admissions at 30 school, it’s pretty clear that is not the case in those examples. I don’t know if UVA is one of those schools in the study, but it would be in good company if it were. If legacy status is not important to a school, it would say so in the Common Data Set, should it not? </p>
<p>You may honestly not think that legacy applicant affected VADAD1’s daughter’s admissions, but you don’t know. Neither does he and neither do I. But if legacies are being admitted with a bump up, they will take up spots that would go to those they are bumped up over. Without seeing the overall picture, none of us can say one way or the other. And I would not believe the ALumni Liasons on these things. I’ve seen alumni groups insist there is no preference only to be contradicted by the officers of the same universities and by admissions themselves. I think we all know that legacies at most schools do get some advantage with some notable exceptions, of which UVA is not.</p>
<p>I don’t think state school should have a legacy preference. The taxpayers are the ones predominently supporting the school with VA having very low college tuitions as a result. Go private if that is what you want to do, and I know that there has been talk about UVa and Wm &Mary and some other state schools going that route. But that is my opinion.</p>
<p>Several years ago there was an article about legacy admissions that stated UVA lets in half of legacy applicants and the Dean of Admissions at that time was completely unapologetic about the preference. He even pretty bluntly implied it was a financial decision.</p>
<p>Has it changed? I don’t know, doesn’t feel like it from where I am sitting though.</p>
<p>I know of a legacy applicant with stats equal to or greater than VADAD1’s daughter (2320 SAT, higher GPA (4.6) in a school with less of a grade bump for APs, no Cs on the transcript, stellar work all 4 years, college coursework, great ECs with leadership, etc.) who was wait listed. With more than 28,000 applications, UVA can’t admit everyone. Practically every applicant meets the criteria for admission. UVA does give a legacy preference in a sense with OOS applications; they read the file as if the applicant is in-state as far as credentials go, so the OOS legacy may have a slightly easier time getting admitted than an OOS non-legacy. I don’t believe it matters much in-state. You have to have the same basic credentials. Dean J has said that they admit legacies with the same frequency as they admit in-state applicants. This fact is in-line with what the Alumni Association reported; that is, legacy applicants must have the credentials to get in and they are admitted at the same rate as in-state students. Being a legacy is nice, but there is no guarantee. They deny and wait list many qualified legacies each year. If legacy were really something UVA weighted heavily and based decisions on, we’d have a lot more of them admitted.</p>
<p>It does matter in state as well. Legacies are admitited at about a 50% accept rate overall according to the head of the university. How that translated into an in state rate, can’t be computed, because the OOS legacies are accepted at the in state rate, but then are merged with the in state legacies to come up with the overall 50% acceptance rate. About 10% of the class is comprised of legacies. </p>
<p>As a matter of fact, Mr K, it is not. However, I think that last post of mine was just sloppy writing. My English is fluent and without an accent. It’s been my primary language for a long time now. I’m sorry that I wasn’t careful in my writing.</p>
<p>I struggle with many of your posts, cpt. They’re very long and complex, and your grammar is quite creative! You have some interesting things to say, but it’s difficult to muster the effort to decipher the text. Sorry, don’t mean to be a pain - but it’s not easy on the reader.</p>
<p>Of course, it’s not as if it’s turtlerock text, either … your contributions are worth some effort.</p>
<p>oldvagrad, that person shouldn’t have been wait listed either. UVA probably has less than 500 kids applying with 2300 SAT scores. In my opinion, if they are meeting the rank and GPA criteria, none of those kids should be wait listed. </p>
<p>Of course, they aren’t coming to ask my opinion any time soon.</p>
<p>Just out of curiosity, was this particular person with the great stats in position to pay for school without financial aid?</p>
<p>I will say…legacy probaby only means something if the parent in question is donating. I think that is probably true at every school.</p>
<p>I don’t even know why there is even a discussion about it though, UVA themselves list legacy as a more important admission factor than test scores, talent, and character.</p>
<p>I mean…if they say that themselves, I would say that is a debate ender really.</p>
<p>turtlerock, you’re in a completely different category. For all I know, you might be a frigging genius - but there’s simply no way to figure out what you were trying to say in this thread. How does one go about interpreting another man’s disjointed free associations? You could be Timothy Leary!</p>
<p>MisterK, really, no offense taken. Oddly enough, he too was in the Armed Forces (albeit non-combative) and one of the schools on my radar is Bama where he also attended. I don’t think I’ll ever eat mushrooms though, so the comparison will most likely end there.</p>
<p>Anyhoo, that’s definitely the first time (that I know of) that I’ve been compared to anyone with an Ivy League background. Thanks, I guess?</p>
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Does UVA meet that definition? College Navigator doesn’t show them giving out a lot of institutional grant aid.</p>