@notigering, yes that’s the list I meant to attach - thx. Here’s another one sorted by ACT scores. If you look at outcomes such as admittance to top MBA schools, Med schools or Law schools it dovetails very well - talent breeds talent
Rank College ACT
1 California Institute of Technology 34-35
2 Harvey Mudd College 33-35
3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 33-35
4 Columbia University 32-35
5 Harvard University 32-35
6 Princeton University 32-35
7 Rice University 32-35
8 University of Chicago 32-35
9 Vanderbilt University 32-35
10 Johns Hopkins University 32-34
11 University of Notre Dame 32-34
12 Washington University in St. Louis 32-34
13 Stanford University 31-35
14 Yale University 31-35
15 Amherst College 31-34
16 Brown University 31-34
17 Carnegie Mellon University 31-34
18 Duke University 31-34
19 Haverford College 31-34
20 Northeastern University 31-34
21 Northwestern University 31-34
22 University of Pennsylvania 31-34
23 Williams College 31-34
24 Bowdoin College 31-34
25 Hamilton College 31-33
26 Cooper Union 30-34
27 Cornell University 30-34
28 Dartmouth College 30-34
29 Georgetown University 30-34
30 Pomona College 30-34
31 Boston College 30-33
32 Case Western Reserve University 30-33
33 Colgate University 30-33
34 Georgia Institute of Technology 30-33
35 Grinnell College 30-33
36 Tufts University 30-33
37 University of Southern California 30-33
38 Vassar College 30-33
39 Washington and Lee University 30-33
40 Swarthmore College 29-34
41 University of California—Berkeley 29-34
42 Carleton College 29-33
43 Claremont McKenna College 29-33
44 Emory University 29-33
45 Reed College 29-33
46 University of Michigan—Ann Arbor 29-33
47 University of Virginia 29-33
48 Wellesley College 29-33
49 Middlebury College 29-33
50 University of Rochester 29-33
51 Wesleyan University 29-33
Oh and I agree, what I meant to say is fit > (any) ranking. Using that last list for example I can envision someone being very happy at say Wesleyan? (and many, many other schools on that list that didn’t even made the cut, New College of Florida never makes it to any of those lists for example) but miserable at any of the top 10?
I’ve been reading the responses, and it’s amazing how these threads take on a life of their own. I had to go back to the OP to remind myself of the question(s). Based on what the OP stated, there are 2 specific issues to address that require prioritization. Here’s what the OP stated:
Based on the first 2 points, Amherst should provide an equal or better environment. You will be just as intelligent when you graduate from Amherst, as will your friends.
If you re-construct the OP, it basically suggests that the student would be willing to do something they would rather not, which may negatively impact their education, for the sole reason of having their ego stroked. All of the proof in the world that says Amherst is a better fit than Cornell, or Dartmouth, or Princeton for this person won’t matter…so there is no reason to keep posting.
My suggestion to the OP: apply ED to Cornell. It is statistically the most likely place for you to get accepted that has the prestige of the Ivy League and name recognition.
A caveat to that strategy: If you pass on the LAC’s for “proof” of your intelligence, you should be prepared to do a lot of explaining if you don’t get in to any of the schools you listed. Unless you have a strong hook, none of the schools listed are safeties for anyone. I know several recent grads who assumed they were going Ivy, and then were embarrassed to admit where they eventually enrolled. Telling someone to look up Amherst or Williams is a lot better than them knowing the name of the second tier, large U you might apply to as your safety.
@EyeVeee I wish the OP stated what he/she is interested in studying, GPA, test scores and such because some of us on here could give specific information to guide him/her. That said, I agree that Cornell may be a good fit for this person. It has name recognition, and within the different colleges at Cornell University, there are small classes which gives classroom experience like a LAC. Granted, not all classes are taught by professors but the professors are very accessible.
I would recommend applying ED to the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. It may give the OP good chance of getting in. It’s the best school of its kind in the nation and it offers four areas of science: Life, Social, Environmental, Food/Agriculture. I’m pretty sure OP can find something to major in within this College.
We can’t provide any meaningful guidance without academic profile - until then it’s just spitballing…
@notigering, here’s 52-110 which includes New College of Florida at #100 - once you get to that place you could argue for another 50 schools, but lists have to stop somewhere…
52 Barnard College 29-32
53 Davidson College 29-32
54 Lehigh University 29-32
55 Macalester College 29-32
56 Scripps College 29-32
57 Stevens Institute of Technology 29-32
58 Tulane University 29-32
59 Union College (Schenectady, NY) 29-32
60 University of Richmond 29-32
61 Villanova University 29-32
62 Colby College 29-32
63 Brandeis University 29-32
64 Mount Holyoke College 29-32
65 Pitzer College 29-32
66 United States Air Force Academy 28-33
67 Bucknell University 28-32
68 College of William and Mary 28-32
69 Colorado School of Mines 28-32
70 Kenyon College 28-32
71 Oberlin College 28-32
72 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28-32
73 Southern Methodist University 28-32
74 University of Miami 28-32
75 Colorado College 28-32
76 New York University 28-32
77 Bates College 28-32
78 Bryn Mawr College 28-32
79 Smith College 28-32
80 Worcester Polytechnic Institute 28-32
81 Occidental College 28-31
82 College of the Holy Cross 28-31
83 Connecticut College 28-31
84 Franklin and Marshall College 28-31
85 Wake Forest University 27-33
86 Santa Clara University 27-32
87 Trinity University 27-32
88 United States Military Academy 27-32
89 University of California—San Diego 27-32
90 University of North Carolina—Chapel Hill 27-32
91 Wheaton College (IL) 27-32
92 Whitman College 27-32
93 Binghamton University—SUNY 27-31
94 Boston University 27-31
95 Brigham Young University—Provo 27-31
96 Clemson University 27-31
97 Fordham University 27-31
98 Hillsdale College 27-31
99 Lafayette College 27-31
100 New College of Florida 27-31
101 Ohio State University—Columbus 27-31
102 Rhodes College 27-31
103 University of Florida 27-31
104 University of Wisconsin—Madison 27-31
105 Clark University 27-31
106 George Washington University 27-31
107 Lewis & Clark College 27-31
108 Sarah Lawrence College 27-31
109 Babson College 27-30
110 Dickinson College 27-30
@Chembiodad , your lists make me chuckle. I have images of your wife, saying “not another list!”
I like how low West Point is on this list. All the way down at 88. Yet it’s much more selective than any LAC we have been discussing, and no will argue that it’s grads aren’t successful. Test scores don’t really mean that much in and of themselves. Intelligence clearly isn’t all its cracked up to be, if these lists are to be believed.
@Lindagaf. West Point has never hinged their selectivity solely on one’s academic profile - no list that is based on scores could ever take these intangibles into account. Regarding outcomes in the recent past, I don’t know if they have done as well as in days past.
“once you get to that place you could argue for another 50 schools, but lists have to stop somewhere…”
I could argue on and on Take any state flagship (I could go lower…) not on those lists. Now add the kids in the school of engineering, those attending the honors program and those unawakened geniuses that were seriously bored in high school, I could keep going but will leave it there… Brilliant/talented kids I believe can easily find company in many, many more places than these types of rankings suggest. Road will likely be rougher but that’s another issue altogether…
@Corbett “Part of the karmic payback for being conceited about your college education is this: you have to spend four years surrounded by other people like you.”
Your post deserves to be immortalized as a sticky/pinned post at the top of every “CC Top Universities” forum.
That list of colleges ranked by test score averages really exposes how poor of a differentiator the ACT/SAT is. The top 100 are very similar or often indistinguishable in average test scores.
This conversation continues to focus on facts and what might be best for the OP, when the internal struggle of the OP is all perception. They appear to know the facts.
If you want the most people possible to “assume” intelligence, you need to go to an Ivy or Stanford. Most people in the country have never heard of CalTech, let alone the LAC’s. These boards automatically go toward “what’s best for you”, but the question revolves around “what’s best for everyone else but me”?
@EyeVeee, actually this thread has swirled for two days without any follow up from OP - at this post no one knows what his or her academic profile would support regarding potential match, safety and reach schools.
