Are UC school's worth it for either in-state or out-of-state students?

Parents Forum
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<p>According to the Office of the President (of UC), total budget for 2009/10 was $20.1 billion.</p>

<p>but to the OP, I have long posted on cc that, with the exception of a few speicialized programs (e.g., Cal eng & Chem, UCSD bioeng, Davis enology), UC is not worth the OOS fees. Whether is it worth instate fees at half the cost of a private is a call your family has to make. I will note however, that attending an Ivy will be less costly (due to their generous finaid policies) than a UC instate for the vast majority of families.</p>

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<p>If your daughter is now in med school, she probably entered UC as a freshman 5-6 years ago. Most of the recent budget cuts have come in the last 3 years.</p>

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<p>My D was accepted into Berkeley’s Engineering School the day before being accepted to our IS flagship - she did receive a great aid package that surprised us and made Berkeley the cost of IS tuition at our flagship but distance (we’re East Coast), ultimate costs and preferring our IS flagship won out as we did have some concerns about the budget, etc. She enjoyed the congrats she got which proved many in our area view it in high regard and may consider it again for grad school when we have a better idea of how the budget issues play out.</p>

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<p>My D is a tour guide at UCD—they are encouraged to do everything they can to accommodate the tours to fit in the schedules of OOS visitors. Bottom line–I think UCD was 8% OOS last year—they are definitely looking to up that #. And yes…because OOS pay more.</p>

<p>OOS add more $ to the system (and yes a bit of diversity as well). My D is in the Davis Honors Challenge (which you only apply for—I don’t think they even look at high school grades) so she gets to register first (SERIOUS PERK)–so she has not noticed the budget cuts much at all at the classroom level. She does say they are no longer enforcing the paid parking lots after 5pm (cutbacks to meter-maids)----so that is actually a big perk for her!!!</p>

<p>FYI- 5 UC’s did make the top 10 public universities at US News & WR. That said…this is the top public university system in the country. They are making do in these budget nightmares by admitting less students. And they definitely want you to graduate in 4-5 years…getting a students graduated keeps the budgets on track.
Great schools–and I still think the OOS price is cheaper than a lot of privates. But good luck getting into UCB or UCLA unless you are a TOP TOP student!</p>

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<p>Davis is one of the less expensive UC campuses for housing, and it’s total Cost of Attendance is still over $50k for OOS… </p>

<p>[UC</a> Davis News & Information :: UC Davis Facts: Total Cost of Attendance for Undergraduates](<a href=“http://facts.ucdavis.edu/undergraduate_cost_of_attendance.lasso]UC”>http://facts.ucdavis.edu/undergraduate_cost_of_attendance.lasso)</p>

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<p>My H teaches at a UC. He hasn’t seen that much of a change for undergraduates, e.g., his classes aren’t any bigger than they’ve always been, same number of TA assigned. Where he’s seen the impact is in the graduate programs. Less money to fund both grad students and visiting scholars.</p>

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<p>If you’re without significant financial resources I’m not sure ANY undergraduate school is worth $50K/year, and that includes UCs and (IMHO) the Ivies. </p>

<p>That said, the University of California system has a long, long way to go before it’s not an exceptionally good in-state choice. Yes, in some privates you will get more customer services and less hassle in getting classes. But very few schools, private or public, can rival UCs in overall value, prestige and access to world-class resources. </p>

<p>As a UC grad, as an admirer of everything the UCs stand for – an outstanding system of superb public schools – I’m very upset to hear about the difficulties faced by UC staff and students. But I stand by my opinion that the outgoing undergraduate can do just about anything on these campuses. And very few schools can make a similar claim. </p>

<p>(Go Bears.)</p>

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<p>Yes, Dd began med school last week, so her freshamn experience is not last year and older DD entered nearly 10 years ago. It is just interesting to read the hype and compare it to the reality. D2’s senior year was pretty recent and she had to get upper div course that fulfilled requirements and helped her connect with those important LOR profs. Junior year was even more of a scheduling challenge in terms of the need to think it all through and do it the right way (BTW, DD did better once she stopped listening to the Berkeley advisors and plotted her own schedule ;)</p>

<p>For example, when the students were protesting increases in fees, it was all over the news. Yes when D1 entered, her fees went $4k, $5k, $6k, $7k, so they increase 25% the first time and really nearly doubled, not a peep of protest anywhere.</p>

<p>The media hype is just that, media hype. DH/ D1/ D2 all did UC, BIL is a prof/dean at a UC, things ebb and flow. They get better and worse. I heard prior to the budget cuts that DDs would be incapable of finishing in 4 years.</p>

<p>D1 nearly finished a double major in 4 years. </p>

<p>In most instances, the kids we knew who did not finish in 4 years did that for a reason:
A} took a year off to prepare and try out for the Olympics
B} studied abroad for a year (classes transfer but dont always fulfill major requirements)
C} changed majors
D} transferred from CC and had wasted classes that did not complete GE
E} took all sorts of exploratory classes that did not always fulfill all the GE req
F} red shirted athlete with a light schedule who wanted and needed one more year to play and finish class</p>

<p>Yes, there are going to be some kids who did it all correctly and cannot graduate in 4 years IF they screw up on the timing of an important pre-req. DD really stressed OChem #2 when she made an error on her priority registration and got the lab but not the lecture, that would have messed up a great deal of her timing, but she did work it out.</p>

<p>UCs always have been and will continue to be large public schools, they will NEVER respond like a small private. But they can still be a good experience.</p>

<p>I have been on this board since 2000. Every single year people post that this was the toughest admissions cycle EVER. It is true that applicants are more qualified and more are applying, but I am not sure that every single year is worse than the prior. I suspect they have all been pretty darn tough.</p>

<p>Same with the UCs, for the right kid, they can still work. For the wrong kid, they are still wrong. I cannot imagine choosing to pay OOS though I do know OOS kids with athletic $ that ended up paying approx the instate amount and that seemed smart</p>

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<p>The UC makes it nearly impossible to follow the actual budget cuts. They are usually talking about cuts to what they wanted–not cuts on a real dollar year over year basis. Best I can figure is they got about the same total dollars from the state as they did the previous year–they just did not get any increase that they had wanted which was HUGE. So they call it a cut. A cut is when you had $500 Million last year and this year you got $450 Million. Not when you had $500 Million, asked for $600 Million and got the $500 million again. UC calls that a 17% cut. I call that BS. UC is no worse off than most state U’s.</p>

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<p>Anyone have an opinion about whether the value of the “lower” UC’s are tougher to call, even in-state? Of course we’d LOVE to save some bucks on our “3.09 but UC eligible” student, and he is not likely to get merit money ( in California), or into a “prestigious” UC. There won’t be any need based aid either. Added to that, for a 3.0 student, thinking about SAT II’s is not fun, and you have to do a UC application, alon with applying to a “lovable safety”. He actually seems fine with a few of the CSU’s, the applications are easy, and at those prices, he could take as long as he wants!</p>

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<p>^^ A colleague of mine was a PHD grad in physics from Harvard and had been a prof at a number of top and Ivy schools. I can’t remember the details but he was telling me about a good program they had at UC Riverside for a particular major (sorry - can’t remember the major). If you take a look at the profs, programs, research at some of the UCs that aren’t UCLA/UCSD/UCB, you’ll find some are excellent. Many of the UCs that aren’t the top 3 are still very highly ranked in most areas. </p>

<p>I guess the biggest difference would be in the level of the student’s peers probably more than in the capability of the profs to teach the UG level courses but as long as you think those peers will still present your S with an adequate competetive and pace environment, then I think considering other than the top 3 makes sense. </p>

<p>It’s not all about ‘ranking position’. For example, both of my kids were accepted to UCB which ranks higher than where they chose to go but they chose their UCs based on their own criteria and it worked out fine.</p>

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<p>^^^
I think I mentioned it before, but my friend’s daughter attended a pre-med program at UCR that transitioned automatically to med school at UCLA if you could manage to stay in it. She was a pretty smart girl, so I imagine she had other choices and picked that one. She’s now a doctor.</p>

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<p>I don’t know much about UCI, but I think UCD and UCSB are definiately worth it, in state. I think UCR is worth in state for “pre-meds”, and UCM for kids who want small size. What about UCSC ?</p>

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<p>I went to UCSC over 30 years ago as an in state student and even then, my psych classes had over 250 students in them. My son would love to go to a Calif school but we now live OOS. My girlfriend’s daughter had 800 students in one of her classes at UCLA. </p>

<p>Hard to justify OOS fees for that kind of an education.</p>

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<p>I think the UC’s are a great in-state option for those who want a large university. I graduated from UCLA in 85 and my son was accepted this year at UCLA, UCSD, and UCSB for engineering. He almost chose UCSD and had been awarded a regents scholarship which would have provided priority enrollment. My husband on the other hand attended Occidental and is still very close to many of his college friends. If I had to do it again I think I would attend a small LAC.</p>

<p>My son ended up choosing Lafayette, a small LAC with engineeering and I think it’s the best choice for him.</p>

<p>In California the budget cuts are really hurting our public elementary schools and high schools (teacher layoffs, increased class sizes etc) and our community colleges. Many of son’s friends can’t get into classes that they need. My BIL works for a CSU and he said that they are constantly adjusting grad requirements so the students can graduate on time.</p>

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<p>Shrink:</p>

<p>IMO, all but Riverside and Merced are worth the instate money. (I personally feel that the UCR connection to UCLA med is over-sold.) Santa Cruz is rapidly becoming more competitive. It wasn’t too long ago that SC accpeted 90% of the applicants. Now it’s much lower, and <20% for those with a UC gpa of 3.0-3.2.</p>

<p>Instead of R or M, I’d recommend the juco route for one (cash in AP credits?)/two years and transfer.</p>

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<p>^^ I think it makes more sense for one to check out the particular major/area the student’s interested in at the particular campus and then make a more accurate assessment of whether the campus would be appropriate for them based on the particulars rather than rely on generalizations. Also, a lot of students would rather go to a 4 year campus environment right away rather than do the 2 year CC/transfer path. There’s nothing wrong with either path but they’re just different and it’s understandable why a student would rather head off somewhere to a 4 year school/living on campus scene and it’s sometimes even best choice for the individual just as the CC/transfer route is best for others.</p>

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<p>One note on huge classes- DD had some huge GE types, OChem with hundreds and the prof had several sections for 1200 in the curve! But then senior upper div bio classes, anatomy with a cadaver, 10-30 people in a class. She paid her dues with the intro scut work and enjoyed the experience in the upper div courses.</p>

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<p>uc-dad:</p>

<p>I don’t necessarily disagree (atho one could argue that checking “out a particular major” is in itself a “generalization” since the vast majority of kids change their major several times), but the OP specifically asked for opinions on the Parents Forum. My opinion is just that. Something else may make “more sense” for YOU, but not to ME. :)</p>

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<p>Bluebayou, I’m sure many under-informeded parents (like myself?) say this, but I want to support my son in a non CC path, if that’s what he want’s. He got all of his C’s, 1st semester sophomore year, and all A’s last (junior) semester. It’s just too bad only four of his classes each semester count toward his UC GPA, and his school offers no honors classes, and very few AP’s. </p>

<p>Most of the AP’s are for seniors, so the don’t contribute to the UC GPA. Don’t get me wrong; maybe that is what it means to be ready for a UC, and most of the students at his school go to CC’s, but I just don’t know if a cc OR a UC is right for him. </p>

<p>That’s what I’m trying to figure out. We are fortunate enough to probably have other options that would allow son to skip the UC app, and the subject tests, if UCR and UCM aren’t lovable “safeties”.</p>