Argument with parents about Teach For America

<p>I really want to join Teach for America or the Peace Corps (if I can get in) after college, and I told my parents about my plans to apply to those organizations next year. To my surprise, they were both outraged that I would be "wasting" two years of my life on an activity that is irrelevant to my future job. I tried to convince them otherwise., but they were unmoved and said that if I really cared about helping the poor and disadvantaged, it would be far more efficient to get a job and donate some of the money instead. (For example, instead of going to a developing country to take care of orphans as part of the Peace Corps, I can work during the two years and donate money to an organization that can more efficiently use the money to feed many orphans.)</p>

<p>My parents seem to have a made a good point about the inefficiency of these long-term service activities, but I still really want to do some long-term service/volunteering... However, if I do end up doing TFA or Peace Corps, does it mean that I am in fact driven by unscrupulous motivations such as egotism? I really don't even know anymore...</p>

<p>What are your long-term career plans? Do you have student loans?</p>

<p>The three goals of the Peace Corps:</p>

<p>Helping the people of interested countries in meeting their need for trained men and women.
Helping promote a better understanding of Americans on the part of the peoples served.
Helping promote a better understanding of other peoples on the part of Americans.</p>

<p>So, donating earnings, while honorable and helpful, cannot accomplish all three goals.</p>

<p>And yes, people join the Peace Corps for motives that are not completely selfless. They usually are interested in living in another culture, learning about other people, in a way that can be enriching to their own lives. But I don’t think that is wrong.</p>

<p>I dont know what you mean by inefficiency, but if you read this weeks Sunday Times magazine about some work some of the TFA kids are doing, it seems like a lot of good to me. I dont see how the importance of changing a child’s life can be underestimated.</p>

<p>I don’t know anything about the pay for TFA or Peace Corps, or whether participating in these programs allows you to defer student loan payments. I do know that alumni of either program are respected, and each experience can be a good thing to have on a resume. You need to find out whether you can participate in either one of these programs and still meet your financial obligations. If you can, then the decision to pursue either one of these is up to you. It’s hard to do things against the advice of your parents or without their approval, but once you graduate college and are responsible for yourself, you get to decide how you want to live your life. Parents can be wrong. Think about how you would feel if you did not pursue the chance of a lifetime because you allowed parental disapproval to get in your way. However, be sure that the choice is financially responsible first. Don’t expect others to pay for you to follow your dreams.</p>

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<p>Well, TFA isn’t a bad idea, but often, many people who are simply not suited to teaching end up at the front of the classroom, and that doesn’t end well. </p>

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<p>Most TFAers have rocky relationships with school administrations, and that hampers their ability to get anything done. To make matters worse, a good deal of them leave after their 2 years are up - that’s terrible for the school and the children who attend it. Schools will be hesitant to invest in the TFAers because they know that they’ll leave and in effect take the money with them. (if you’re not too sure what I’m talking about, there’s an excellent NYTimes article on a Bronx principal that described investing in teachers.) When someone shows up out of nowhere with no commitment of staying - unlike the other teachers - and proceeds to prescribe a variety of methods of action with an air of authority not befitting someone fresh out of their four-year school, it’s bound to create some problems.</p>

<p>I’m sorry your parents are not supportive of your choices. Peace Corp and Teach for America do good work. They also provide their volunteers with a life experience. How important that “life experience” is to you is really a personal choice. Life is long. Life can be a wonderful adventure. To me, 2 years volunteering, doing good work, and having that life experience is a wonderful and very worthwhile adventure. Apparently, your parents don’t agree. This choice is really yours to make. Do what you want to do, taking into account your parents’ point of view. However, this is where your life begins. Live it the way you want. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I can speak for PC. Student loans are deferred for the duration of the PC service. If your student has a Perkins loan, a %age of that loan is actually canceled for each year of PC service. I think it’s 15% a per year. PC volunteers receive about $7200 a year for their living expenses while in the PC. However, there is a worksheet that is completed and NOT all of that is taxable income. In fact, PC states clearly that if the ONLY compensation the PC volunteer receives is their PC money, they do not have to file federal tax returns for that year.</p>

<p>In addition, upon return there are some colleges and programs within them that DO give preferential admission to returned PCVs…and the costs can also be reduced. </p>

<p>During ones time in the PC, the volunteer really has no unsupported expenses. The stipend provided by the PC covers costs…unless the volunteer is a BIG spender (in most third world countries, that just isn’t easy to be).</p>

<p>I firmly believe the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. </p>

<p>Re: “parent approval”…I don’t recall signing anything giving MY approval for my 22 year old to become a PC volunteer.</p>

<p>Just to be clear, TFA participants aren’t strictly volunteers; they get compensated similarly to starting teachers. The school district that employs them pays TFA a fee (something like $6,000), and TFA in turn pays the participant a regular wage. This is a ‘win’ for schools in that they get to employ a teacher for a fraction of the normal cost. Yes, it is true that some TFA’ers leave after their stint is completed, but even then the school had a teacher that in some cases they could not otherwise afford. I don’t believe that student loans can be deferred, as in Peace Corps or Americorps, but you would earn enough to make payments.</p>

<p>It might be instructive to demonstrate how successful many Peace Corps, Teach for America and (don’t forget) Americorps VISTA participants become after their experiences. Beyond the great adventure and satisfaction of helping others, these experiences look good on your resum</p>

<p>ALF:

This is not true. TFA corps members are hired by their school districts and paid by them, like any other teacher. TFA provides NO compensation of any kind to corps members unless they hire them for non-classroom work, in which case TFA is the employer, not the school district. If a corps member completes the two-year commitment with extensive required continuing training, AmeriCorps provides an AmeriCorps Education Award of $5,350 per year, which, as per TFA’s website, can only be used for:

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<p>ALF:

Teach for America is an AmeriCorps partner. Therefore, TFA corps members qualify for loan forbearance during their service period. </p>

<p>Can you document your comment about the $6,000 TFA fee? My d is a corps member in the DC Metro region and no payment is made by TFA to the school districts there. Another poster made a similar comment a few months ago; I made an extensive search and was unable to find verification for this statement.</p>

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[quote]
these experiences look good on your resum</p>

<p>What are your future career plans? How does this service develop skills that would be relevant?
My advice to a college student who wanted to be a lawyer, for example, would be to not participate in the programs described above and to instead get through law school as soon as possible. There is a desperate need for lawyers for pro bono service of all kinds, and only credentialed lawyers can provide it.</p>

<p>ksarmand, </p>

<p>I think I referred to the NYTimes article. I think that the TFA teachers are on average smarter than the existing teachers. On average, not everyone. And experience has to be balanced against intelligence. Sorry if I am not PC, but I think it is hypocratical for the suburban districts to be able to demand better teachers, but not the inner cities.</p>

<p>What part of, “Just to be clear, TFA participants aren’t strictly volunteers; they get compensated similarly to starting teachers” is incorrect?</p>

<p>TFA has been big in the news in the Seattle region as they are just starting here. According to local newspapers, school districts pay TFA a fee for each teacher, and this is the way it is around the country. The part I got wrong was who pays the TFA teacher’s salary. Apparently, in Seattle at least, school districts are fundraising to pay the cost of the TFA fees and the teachers’ salaries. It was clear that the TFA teacher salaries were not coming out of regular allocated operating funds, but it was not clear to me that the funds do not come from TFA itself.</p>

<p>Sorry about the error over whether or not TFA participants can get loans deferred.</p>

<p>In any event, I was trying to get across to the OP that TFA teachers make a salary sufficient to not call the experience, ‘volunteering’.</p>

<p>@ ksarmand (post 6) - I can see you’re not a fan, and many people aren’t. I suggest that, while your comments apply to some TFA members, they do not apply to the majority. Even teachers who leave after the required 2-year stint are valuable to their students and administrators. My d is a sample of 1, but the progress her students have made is real (last year every kid except the one with profound mental challenges met or exceeded expectations). The regard her principal has for her is real, too. In fact, she was asked to be head teacher for her grade level next year.</p>

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Yes, I’ve heard this one before, and I’m sure it’s true in some cases. I believe that in other cases, it’s the idea of of someone “showing up out of nowhere … with an air of authority not befitting someone fresh out of their four-year school” that’s so offensive. I mean, really - the effrontery of those kids for obtaining alternative teacher certification! My d hasn’t had much opportunity to offend the other teachers at her school this way. She’s smart enough not to alienate co-workers, for one thing - and she doesn’t have much time in the teachers lunchroom to hold forth on the supposed superiority of her methods, for another. Will you grant that “an air of authority” is handy in classroom management, at least?</p>

<p>This may take the thread off in another direction, but I’ve long wondered - if TFA is so ineffectual, offensive, damaging to children and the educational system itself, etc.- why do principals hire TFA corps members? All of them were teachers once themselves and presumably want to promote good results for their students. If it’s pressure from district administrators - well, why do they want TFA corps members in their schools?</p>

<p>TFA districts historically have had difficulty in recruiting and retaining teachers, and in meeting goals for academic progress. I’m a supporter of the teaching profession and respect what career teachers do. The insistence on disparaging TFA and its corps members took me by surprise at first. It doesn’t today, but it does make me realize that non-traditional approaches to the problems of education must overcome some deeply entrenched prejudices. </p>

<p>powerof0, your parents aren’t fans, either, though their reasons seem to be economic. I think it would be difficult to quantify how much money you’d have to donate that would approach the contribution made by a Peace Corps or TFA member - but it’s probably a lot.</p>

<p>Well, you’re young, likely don’t have a family, and maybe little in the way of debt. So now is the time to see the world - whether it be the U.S. (through TFA) or elsewhere. I’m not a big fan of either TFA or Peace Corps in terms of what they do for the “targeted population”, but I am clear it is usually a growth experience for those who participate - and that’s a big deal. I actually agree with your parents in terms of “contributions”, but I think at your age that shouldn’t be the core issue.</p>

<p>I’m still looking for documentation showing that school systems must pay both a fee to TFA and the full teacher salary and benefits for each TFA corps member hired. If TFA members do indeed cost school systems more money than other new hires, I can understand the hostility on that point. I can state absolutely that my d’s school system was not charged a fee by TFA for her placement. There’s no money in her county for that kind of expense.</p>

<p>I think I’ll try emailing the Seattle area TFA coordinator on this issue.

No part of that statement is unclear or incorrect. I was referring to your statements about TFA paying teacher salaries, and the lack of loan forbearance for TFA members (since TFA is part of AmeriCorps). There have been many mis-statements about TFA on the parents forum which are then often taken as facts. I apologize for the snarky tone.</p>

<p>Just depends do you want help give hope, and inspiration.</p>

<p>Or do you want to help by giving money to get them what they need
Like education, food, and clothes.</p>

<p>Any way it helps just think to your self, which one is more important to you. </p>

<p>Then do what makes you happy, hue cares what your parents think, I would rather do somthing that sticks with you forever, than wounder what you could have done.</p>

<p>powerofO, it appears from your previous posts that you are probably currently finishing your second year of college? If so, you have time to do some more research on your options. Maybe you can talk to some alumni from your college who are currently or have previously done stints with TFA or PC. These are both admirable organizations and their corps members do good work. You will be an adult when you leave college and can do as you wish with your life. If you choose the PC or TFA, I bet your parents will come around and be very proud of you.</p>

<p>I could not be more proud of my daughter, who is a first year science teacher in a public urban middle school, through TFA. She works extremely hard, long hours and she knows she is making a difference in her students’ lives, despite what tfa naysayers might believe. She may or may not continue in the education field, but I would never ever consider these two (or more?) years to be wasted. I bet your parents will feel the same once they learn a little more about it, should you choose to pursue either TFA or PC.</p>

<p>By the way, for what it is worth in the debate, pretty sure my D’s district does not pay TFA. TFA provides a LOT of support and training to the new teachers which is valuable but I am pretty sure this doesn’t cost the school district anything. The school principals hire, after interviews and observing a sample lessons from ALL applicants. A principal chooses a TFA corp member from among all teacher applicants because he or she is the best fit for the particular position the principal is looking to fill.</p>

<p>TFA and the Peace Corps are both extremely challenging programs that will stretch you up to – and perhaps past – your limits. I don’t know anyone who has done one of these programs who hasn’t been changed by them. (And I know several TFA teachers who are still teaching four or five years later.) The Peace Corps volunteers from my generation that I know went on to lead extremely responsible lives – usually with jobs that were also increasingly responsible. I can’t think of any who somehow got “lost” out of the process.</p>

<p>But both these programs are extremely competitive. You probably also need a Plan C, in the event that you don’t get accepted to either of them. Your parents might find it helpful to talk with parents of some other students who’ve taken these routes in previous years – you probably can find some with connections either to your school or your hometown. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Arabrab hits it right on the head with that post. Peace Corps, Teach for America and Americorps say that their programs are designed to build leaders…not teachers, health care workers or necessarily anything related to the assignment the volunteer undertakes while in these groups. </p>

<p>I agree also that these will stretch you to your limits…and sometimes in the discomfort area. Perhaps this is what your parents are worried about. Our daughter is living in a very small village in a very small country in Africa. She has no running water or electricity. She is teaching high school science. She still hasn’t received her furniture (which she ordered…she has a bed, and a desk, but nothing else). The language in her country is a challenge…and that is putting it mildly. Still, every week when we speak to her via Skype (to her cell phone…there is cell service everywhere), she tells us how wonderful the small village and people in it are. She is learning more about others, and herself than I would have ever imagined. </p>

<p>There is more to contributing than working a job and sending money or supplies. PC, TFA and Americorps are not for everyone…but for those who make it through the very competitive (and difficult) application process, the rewards, in my opinion, are plentiful.</p>