What would you do?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>My daughter wants to major in Theater and minor in Creative Writing. We live in AZ and she has full tuition to any state school. Problem is, none of our schools are considered "great" and none have what she is looking for. She liked the idea of NAU (location), but it has no undergrad writing and the theater program is iffy. She is accepted at U of A as well, and it has a GREAT writing program, but the theater program is a BFA in acting and it is a rigid cut program and the BA program isn't for those who want to concentrate in acting.</p>

<p>She was also accepted at Hofstra with a scholarship which would mean paying $19,000 a year (but we know little about the school) or a New York SUNY, which New Paltz gave us NOTHING, even though our EFC is below their full cost of $24,000 and the others will probably follow suit. She is also on a wait list at Muhlenberg (don't even get me started!), but that more than likely means NO merit from them either.</p>

<p>What to do? Go in big debt at a NY school, or graduate with no debt, but at the sacrifice of not being able to study Theater (which is her passion)? I really wish we were NY residents right now!!!!</p>

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<p>I personally would go with U of A because of the great writing program which might even spark a greater interest in writing than acting. I happen to know a very successful playwright who went to college for acting and came out a writer…it happens!!! Don’t “write off” the idea! :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Worst case scenario, she gets there and confirms that she doesn’t like either the BFA or BA theatre program then at least she’s in a great writing program and she can feed her theatre passion with performance opportunities/lessons outside the classroom.</p>

<p>Don’t go into big debt just for a NY school.</p>

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<p>I second that motion. My D is severely restricted by her student loans right now. Don’t go into debt if you don’t have to.</p>

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<p>Thanks sandkmom & musicmom :)</p>

<p>We agree with you on the writing aspect, but theater is her passion and she truly has natural talent in it. She can’t imagine NOT performing. Writing is just a secondary interest. One thing I worry about with your scenario is that she wouldn’t be able to go on to get an MFA in theater without the BA or BFA in theater, right? We would hate to pay $10-12,000 a year and it not even help her in her major/career (besides being able to say she has a degree).</p>

<p>She wouldn’t have a car and Tucson doesn’t have the theater culture and opportunities that Phoenix does, so I don’t see how she could do outside things instead.</p>

<p>This whole thing is so frustrating and has not turned out as either of us imagined it would. I wish Arizona had better schools, and more options (like good liberal arts colleges).</p>

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<p>She would absolutely be a candidate for an MFA theatre program with a different major - and I think something in the writing area would be a very natural tie-in. Great background for script analysis!</p>

<p>I recently read an article online - wish I’d saved the link - I think it may have been from the WSJ, that had a student talking about going to a “lesser” school, but emerging debt-free, and because she was top-notch, created opportunities for herself which she most likely would never have gotten at a more prestigious school. That, along with fantastic teacher rec’s, got her into her dream grad school on a full ride.</p>

<p>In these uncertain economic times, I always urge graduating debt-free, or as near to that as possible.</p>

<p>I agree that the notion of a strict cut program such as U of A’s would scare me – however, a couple of thoughts to consider… as long as she was in good standing in the unversity, she would be cut from the program, not the school, correct? In which case, the switch to writing major could happen. Possibly (although not necessarily - depending on if it would be all the same instructors as the BFA), she could still minor, or take some theater classes through the BA program.</p>

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<p>“She would absolutely be a candidate for an MFA theatre program with a different major”</p>

<p>This is reassuring to hear! We thought that she would need a BA or BFA in Theater in order to gain acceptance into an MFA program. I still worry that she would be at a disadvantage when auditioning, but we’ll have to see if they will let her take as many acting classes as she wants. We also need to see if there are any student run productions that she could participate in.</p>

<p>We are behind in our research of U of A, as it was my daughter’s absolute LAST choice of college. Imagine her disappointment right now when she realizes that she may have no other choice :frowning: </p>

<p>The cut program idea is scary, but that isn’t the main reason. Many of her former classmates at high school (those ahead of her) went into the program and were cut for what they felt were odd reasons (not “getting” a character). It makes an already stressful schedule of courses/rehearsal all the more stressful.</p>

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<p>A large school like ASU has a lot of theatre opportunities. I live in a college town without a big theatre ug program but now and then actors come out of this school. I would consider U of A or ASU and then allow my d to spend the summers in NYC at Circle in the Square or NYU Spring Semesteror CAP21. What about studying theatre in England as part of study abroad? Is she interested in singing.? There are many realy good private voice teachers through the music dept at ASU and surely in a town as big as Tempe, she can find dance classes. And I would not be afraid of the cut policyat NAU, sometimes the best thing for a student is to be cut, besides the fear of being cut can bring out the best in a student. If the faculty at my d’s school didn’t feel she was competitive, I would want her to be cut and the sooner the better.</p>

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<p>I also thought about ASU as I have 2 nephews who attended and really liked the school (but neither were theatre majors.) I don’t know anything about the theatre program, other than that they have a BA with the opportunity for an acting concentration. And they have the Virginia G. Piper Center for Creative Writing there so I would imagine she could pursue writing there as well.</p>

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<p>Thanks thecheckbook & austinmtmom :)</p>

<p>ASU is not an option. It’s less desirable academically, it’s too close to home (familiar surroundings & too many high school classmates) and their theater program is not great (we hear this first hand from other previous classmates who are currently in the theater program there). They are much better for music. I have lived here in Phx for 30 years, so I know each school’s rep fairly well.</p>

<p>I would love for her to spend a summer in NYC at Circle in the Square, but they don’t have housing and I have no idea where she would stay (she is NOT ready to be in a big city like that alone). Cost is a factor for both that program and study abroad. She is not a singer, but would like to explore some training to see what her vocal capabilities might be.</p>

<p>Although the thought of a cut program is daunting, it’s not really that issue that gives her pause…it is what friends of hers who were in the program have told her about the program that made her not want to go there. However, tonight was her final performance in her spring play, and I talked with both of her Theater teachers at length about the program (one is a U of A Theater grad & still has connections). They both felt she would be successful in the BFA program at U of A and they did not see her being cut. One teacher explained in length about why they make the choices they do. So, we’ll have some long discussions about it this weekend.</p>

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<p>If she wants a “taste” of New York City and a really great program, you might check out one of the summer sessions at Broadway Artists Alliance. My D has done several of their programs and loved them. And they have a chaperone at one of the hotels right around the corner for those who are there unaccompanied. She could do some private lessons as well. It is obviously very different from a program like Circle in the Square but it may be a good fit for her.
[Broadway</a> Artists Alliance](<a href=“http://www.broadwayartistsalliance.org/tuition&NYChousing/index.html]Broadway”>http://www.broadwayartistsalliance.org/tuition&NYChousing/index.html)</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>If your daughter wants to stay in the city for the summer I know that NYU rents out their dorm rooms for the summer. My son’s friend is not a student there and didn’t take any classes and stayed in the dorm last summer. Then she could do any program she wants to.</p>

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<p>It sound as if you (the OP) is saying that the Arizona schools are offering a full ride, but don’t really offer the program opportunities you D is looking for, and the OOS schools (both private and OOS public) offer the programs, but will cause your D and family to take on debt. You are asking advice on whether the debt might be worth it for the program opportunities?</p>

<p>The answer to that question will be different for each family. Some families will decide that there is no way they will take on debt when a full ride is possible, others may decide that the strengths of a particular program are worth the debt. </p>

<p>Some thoughts and advice on questions to ask…</p>

<p>Research and questions to ask at U of A include if the BA students can take acting classes (if so, do they take with the BFA students and/or faculty?), and audition for productions (if so how often are BA students cast?). Also, can she audition to enter the BFA program as a sophomore. Does your D want to be in a BFA acting program? </p>

<p>In terms of NAU, can you visit the school, sit in on classes, see a show, talk to current students? Find out what kinds of opportunities students pursue after graduation. How do students spend their summers? Pursuing further training, performing in summer theatres, working in professionally focused internships? Does the school have a focus on helping students prepare for graduate school auditions? Many schools that may not be as well know can be terrific places to train, learn, grown, receive mentorship. </p>

<p>In terms of MFA acting programs. It is possible to be admitted to an MFA program in acting without an undergraduate degree in theatre, but probably not without significant training and performing experience beyond HS. It can be very difficult for students auditioning for MFA acting programs right out of college to be admitted. They will be auditioning with potential graduate students who have been out of school for a few years and have professional experience. </p>

<p>Has your daughter written down her what she wants out of the college experience and created a pros and cons list, including estimated debt? This might help her evaluate her choices.</p>

<p>The idea of summer programs is a good one if she goes to NAU or is a BA student at U of A, but make sure to look at those costs. Including housing in NYC, cost of program, etc. You may not be able to get financial aid for these programs, so the COA will come out of pocket. </p>

<p>Hofstra is a great school with a strong theatre program. If the COA with grants and scholarships is less than the COA at the SUNY school it would probably be a better option than the SUNYs.</p>

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<p>With regard to NAU, have you looked at all their offerings? Sometimes, in order to compete with schools in locations, a school with a healthy endowment will create some fabulous opportunities for their best students. For example an friends son went to a small state school for physical therapy. The school had fantastic internships in place in NYC to study in a hospital with housing etc for a nominal fee. That may apply to study abroad also. Also don’t write off Arizona Universities completely, ASU has a fabulous honors college and school of business. I know some fine lawyers from ASU. Frequently, if you want to do business or practice in a state it is better to go to a state school. You make lifelong contacts. I know that’s not relevant here but I thought I’d state it. But anyway, check out the percs at UofA, they may have opportunities for their students that you might not be aware of that might surprise you, special trips, mentoring, internships, study abroad that gets them out of Flagstaff because it is more remote (and beautiful). While it may look like AZ is in financial trouble, as you know it is home to many generous multi-millionaires who endow the universities in AZ. Hopefully, some endow the arts.</p>

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<p>realjoy, I’m a little confused. Regarding U of A, has your D auditioned for the BFA and been accepted? If so, is she able to double major there to include her desire for writing?</p>

<p>I would be very careful about relying on the opinions of two high school teachers regarding the chances of any student suffering a cut from the U of A program, or any other program with a cut, for that matter. There is absolutely no way they could know that and it sounds to me like something that would typically be said by a teacher to the parent of a good student. There are just too many instances of kids who are doing well, by all accounts, in their classes and who are then surprised when they find out they’re cut. Have a close look at the discussions in the U of A forum here.</p>

<p>Kat’s post above has an abundance of excellent advice and information in it, and I second her comment about Hofstra. I would place that option at the top of the list, if it’s in the ballpark financially.</p>

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<p>We know Hofstra quite well and I just wanted to make you aware that it has a large commuter population. My daughter has taken some of the classes for young folks there and my son knows some people that go there. I have to say they do have really good food quality and choices in the cafeteria. The campus is split in half by a busy road, but there is a unispan to walk through that goes above the road. The area around the school is not all that appealing and beside the coliseum where there are concerts and sporting events, there doesn’t seem to be alot to do in the area. It’s probably about an hour’s drive to Manhattan and there are surrounding areas that have more going on. My son goes to New Paltz…so I could try and answer any questions you might have about either school.</p>

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<p>@KatMT - Thank you SO MUCH for replying :slight_smile: You are such a valuable contributor here, and I really appreciate your opinions & expertise in this subject. To clarify, she doesn’t have a full ride in state…just full tuition, so we would still pay $10,000 per year (not including travel & incidentals). My daughter did not want a BFA program only because she wants to minor in writing and also take other classes that interest her. This is one big reason UA is unattractive. They do offer a BA, but it is not for those who want to act. It is a more liberal arts approach to theater, and heavy in history, tech & dramaturgy. They do take some acting classes for that program, but I will have to find out if it is with the BFA students and staff. I don’t yet know their policy on BA students auditioning for roles. As I said, this was her “last resort” school, so we haven’t yet studied it in depth.</p>

<p>NAU is a beautiful school, but we have talked to a couple of people about their experiences and were told that the staff doesn’t really teacher theater very well, and that it is only good for people who want to “self train” and resume build. I did look at the teacher’s educational backgrounds & interests, and wasn’t very impressed. We would need to ask the questions about grad school prep and summer opportunities. They also have no undergraduate writing program :frowning: and have been cutting/combining programs due to economic issues.</p>

<p>Thanks for the info on Hofstra. We know very little about the school, and can’t really visit. Our cost per year there, not including travel & incidentals, would be $17,500 (I incorrectly thought it was 19,000). So far I only have the New Paltz offer ($24,000) but I am assuming the other SUNY’s will be about the same.</p>

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<p>@thecheckbook - Thanks so much for all your help with this :)</p>

<p>We’ve looked at the NAU program & school pretty well. Unfortunately, they really don’t have a lot of funds. They are the least respected of our three state schools, and don’t get near the endowments that the other two receive (it isn’t a PAC 10 school <em>rolls eyes</em>). They are primarily a school for Education, Forestry and Hospitality majors. We did look into their ‘perks’, but there weren’t a lot. They do have some study abroad programs, but for theater it was in Australia. My daughter wants to do study abroad for Theater in England. They do have a fledgling summer theater program that they do in conjunction with a local Flagstaff theater company called ‘Town & Gown’, but the last production (The Odd Couple) only had ONE theater student in it. The other cast members were people from the community, a Criminology professor and a Forestry graduate (?!). Not sure what to make of that. I wish their Theater program was better and that they offered Writing! She would love to live in Flag.</p>

<p>I agree with you about ASU being terrific for business and law majors. It’s also terrific for communications majors. We love seeing touring Broadway shows at their Gammage Theater, but every single student we know that went their for Theater is disappointed. They all know my daughter, and have worked with her in theater, and all have advised her not to go there.</p>

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<p>Hi alwaysamom :)</p>

<p>My daughter has been accepted into U of A School of Theater Arts BA program, but has not yet auditioned for the BFA program. She didn’t want a BFA, and UA was her last choice school, so she didn’t audition. Now we are deciding whether or not she should pursue the BFA instead. One of the issues, as you have asked, is about the double major. That won’t be possible…and even a minor may not be. She can still take at least a couple of writing classes, but we need to talk more about this in depth with an adviser.</p>

<p>I’m definitely taking what the teachers said with a grain of salt. The one who is a UA grad has never been very warm toward my daughter, and is an abrasive personality type, so I was surprised by what she said. She still works with the faculty at UA and does some productions with them (I think on the technical end, but not sure). That is the only reason that I put some credence into what she said about the program and my daughter’s potential. I read the things people said on the UA board last year, and it was just one more reason UA was at the bottom of our list. It is a HUGE reason why we are so torn! Pay a lesser amount to send her to a school with the odd BFA cut program and, arguably, weaker academics but then graduate debt free…or go into big debt sending her to NY for better academics and possibly better theater training and opportunities? I feel like we are in a lose/lose situation :(</p>

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<p>Has your d ever been to a summer acting program out of state? Before you commit to out of state you might want to try it.</p>

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<p>@thecheckbook - No, she has never done anything like that - only local. Without getting into too much detail, she would not yet be ready to travel alone or be in a big city like NYC alone, and I am struggling with an illness that would not allow me to travel with her, so she would not be able to do that before going to college. Besides, we would have to commit within the next few weeks.</p>

<p>@Lilymoon - I so appreciate all of the insight and advice you have given to me regarding Hofstra and New Paltz! It really is invaluable to us :)</p>