<p>mini ,</p>
<p>200 million from Gates is a drop in comparison to the amount of money spent by States and federals. Also, we don’t know, maybe without Gates Common Core would be even more dreadful :)</p>
<p>IMHO, Dept of Education is responsible for this mess, not Bill Gates.</p>
<p>What a mess! This shouldn’t be that hard–seems most everyone recognizes a good system versus a poor one (and its components–teachers, curriculum, end results).
“Reverse engineering” doesn’t seem like a bad model–we want a good system so how do we get there? It still isn’t working which doesn’t mean the general idea is flawed (but don’t rule that out) but its implementation is sorely lacking. Each of those factors vary from district to district. </p>
<p>Teachers–can’t live with some of them and can’t do without them. I’ve met too many I could get rid of really fast but the school district could not.</p>
<p>Curriculum–determined. But nobody says (at least I hope so!) that you can’t go well above a minimum standard. If that’s the problem it needs to be readdressed. Just raise the bar. And I hope your kids have teachers that know the meaning of minimum and your kids get a lot more than that.</p>
<p>End result–haven’t seen a test. What I do know is I grew up with achievement testing every year and never had a teacher “teach to the test”. We all knew how to read and do at least basic math. No biggie. In fact the tests weren’t very hard.</p>
<p>If you have good teachers to BEGIN with then they should TEACH to a RESULT–that you learn how to read, write and do math. It doesn’t matter if reading is non-fiction or fiction–if the kids are reading and understanding they will do well on the test. Just because someone (misguided in my book) thinks non-fiction is “better” doesn’t matter–I wouldn’t stress it in a classroom. Reading first.
And yeah those SA things were in my classroom–not nearly as interesting as the actual books I was reading. But it wasn’t required.</p>
<p>Same with math–I’m a drill person (multiplication tables first!)–it’s quick and done me well through calculus and chemistry. No complaints. I don’t need 15 ways of solving the problem–I need an answer. And so did my kids–answers first and “guesstimation…much later”. I had to do “remedial” math with my kids–like save them from the school system so they could do calculus too.</p>
<p>Science–please let kids have someone who LOVES science and can’t wait to show them the world. Not as many of those around unfortunately.</p>
<p>The problem with “Reverse engineering” is that it assumes learning is linear. That you can teach 1’st graders using the same methods (and expectations) as freshman in high school. One of the first groups to complain about “common core” were early child development experts. Some efforts have already been made to setup standardized testing for K-3rd graders…</p>
<p>I don’t agree with Gates and his politics but I do admire his wanting to further education. He has his ideas as we do–we just don’t have the money to back it all up. He didn’t “drop out of computer science” because he couldn’t hack it. There was no “computer science” as we now know it. He had access to computers that wasn’t readily available to many and an interest which led him. He had some very unique opportunities in life. I think his wanting to give knowledge and provide the technology to open doors to young people is admirable.</p>
<p>Gator–I’m pretty sure I was “standardized” a seemingly million years ago. But not tested. I just got written down on some page as smart or dumb by the teacher evaluating me. Take your pick–test or teacher evaluation–it follows you and has for at least 50 years.
Standardization:
First grade–reading, addition, subtraction, duck-duck-goose, no food throwing. Line up in a STRAIGHT line. No talking. EVER.
Second grade–reading, addition, subtraction, read a clock, plants need sunlight and water, kickball, play nice. Memory games.
third grade–multiplication tables, bigger books, writing, cursive, basic grammar, draw a map of where you live. dodgeball, what goes up must come down (basic physics), poetry. And games. Story time by teacher who picked out all her favorite chapters from kid’s books. (the reader was born…)
Fourth–division, grammar, social studies, music–Peter, Paul and Mary and the Beatles at grade sing (and I sing to this day!), softball, state history, and wonderful stories by our librarian who traveled the world with the slides to prove it (my favorite since no grades were involved and I remember her stories to this day), fire needs oxygen (good graphics)
Fifth–more of the same with lots more writing involved and the library.</p>
<p>And I forgot the ton of drills about hiding under your desk when “the bomb” was about to explode you to bits…</p>
<p>" He didn’t “drop out of computer science” because he couldn’t hack it. There was no “computer science” as we now know it."</p>
<p>He didn’t drop out of computer science. He dropped out of college, and his “knowledge” of science was pretty much attenuated at the 7th grade level. (don’t get me started on Gates’ efforts on malaria, which I know firsthand.) He knows ZERO about child development and learning theory, and he never went to public school. But he knows HEAPS about reverse engineering. </p>
<p>Gator88 has it right about reverse engineering and children. But there’s more. If you reverse engineer education, in a linear fashion, pretty much everyone will be made to feel a failure somewhere along the way, and fall off the line. Some will recover (because of things happening outside of school.) But many will never recover. And that’s great, because they are the absolutely required Walmart clerks of our future. And that’s what we really need. </p>
<p>"200 million from Gates is a drop in comparison to the amount of money spent by States and federals. Also, we don’t know, maybe without Gates Common Core would be even more dreadful</p>
<p>IMHO, Dept of Education is responsible for this mess, not Bill Gates."</p>
<p>The Department of Education wasn’t even invited to the first meetings. $191 million is a HUGE amount for a pre-development and development process. And then they sold it to the Guvs (who know nothing about education) as “reverse engineering”, and Guvs stood up and applauded. Only then did the Department of Education get in on the act.</p>
<p>Most of that $191 million was not spent toward developing common core, most went to outside groups to get them “on-board” with the rollout. </p>
<p>Below is a quote from the article mini linked above. BTW, the article does a decent job of outlining the basic critique of common core.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Regarding reading non-fiction: it is often recommended to parents of gifted boys who are reluctant readers by other parents of gifted children, including homeschoolers.</p>
<p>I come from a family of ardent bookworms, so strategies to get kids to read, and to increase their reading comprehension–not to mention the texts in the standard curriculum–have always been somewhat incomprehensible to me.</p>
<p>@gouf78, my experience was the same in school, except I never got to do “duck and cover”,…and the fact that I spent most of 1’st grade being put in “solitary confinement”…i.e… being told to stand/sit in the hallway (no food throwing, lining up in a straight line and not talking where not areas I excelled in…). :)</p>
<p>Thank you for pointing this out Californiaa, "state of California would be eliminating its long-standing 8th grade algebra requirements. The reason given was that kids were “not ready” to learn algebra by 8th grade. ". This state is mastering the art of teaching to the lowest level in each class. I wonder how they explain my Ds public middle school having two geometry classes and about eight kids going to the high school for algebra two. You think by now these administrators would realize not all kids have the same abilities and you should not hinder the bright to level the field.</p>
<p>So who gets to take Calculus in high school if you have to do Algebra in 9th grade? </p>
<p>Most high schools do something like this fir math sequencing:</p>
<p>Algebra - middle school or grade 9</p>
<p>Geometry grade 9 or 10
Algebra 2 10 or11
Pre-Calc or Statistics 11 or 12
Calc or Statistics 12</p>
<p>My white suburban mom hates the idea that kids won’t get what all four of her kids got: the opportunity to take algebra as an eighth grade student and to therefore get calculus in high school.</p>
<p>But I guess that the high-powered banker is a twit who needs Arne Duncan to set her straight.</p>
<p>The problem is that you need Algebra 2 for advanced Physics and Chemistry. If you take Algebra 2 in 11th grade, you don’t have time to study advanced science in HS.</p>
<p>BTW, you really need advanced Chemistry to study Biology, especially Biochemistry.</p>
<p>SamuraiLandshark ,</p>
<p>One needs both, Pre-Cal and Statistics for SAT 2. Common Core doesn’t give kids enough time to master these topics by 11th grade.</p>
<p>Aren’t we all about STEM, these days? </p>
<p>How does this push the needle forward to prepare our kids for science and math?</p>
<p>ariesathena ,</p>
<p>Your mom is just a “white suburban mom”. Mr. Arne Duncan doesn’t respect this crowd.</p>
<p>Without Calc, AP Physics is tough…</p>
<p>Am I missing something, here?</p>
<p>In Maryland they are also eliminating Algebra from middle school. I have a child who will be graduating this year with 8 math credits because he was able to take advanced math courses in middle school. My middle school child (8th grade) is in the last class of Geometry in 8th grade. I am perplexed. If we are making curriculum more rigorous, how is this helping. We have also been told kids are “not ready.” I’d like to tell that to the 15 seniors taking Calculus three at the high school. Not every kid is ready, but some kids are.</p>
<p>When it comes to young children, developmentally kids are not able to reason the way common core demands. Why child development experts were not sought is beyond me. First graders being bogged down with drawing cylinders, cubes, rectangular prisms, etc. and being introduced to confusing whole/part/part pictures is not helping them but rather frustrating them. </p>
<p>I feel for the teachers who have no choice and have been ill-equipped. In my opinion Common Core is another doomed curriculum. I wish they would model education after things that have worked in the past instead of “reinventing the wheel.”</p>
<p>^ what county? Please PM if you don’t want to say publicly.</p>