<p>Duh..... At this rate the IITs and Oxfords and Cambridges will catch up with the Crimsons and the Yalies. THis is really stupid. I would really luv 2 get in2 either institute and then in case I fell lonely I can go to a bar etc to liven up my social life.</p>
<p>Harvard is a true paradise, Byerly.</p>
<p>Excellent social scene. Excellent crime rates. Excellent cost of living. Excellent access to professors. Amazing undergraduate focus. </p>
<p>Nothing wrong with it at all!</p>
<p>Its more fun attacking Harvard than reading dreary "chances" threads on the Stanfod site, isn't it?</p>
<p>You indirectly acknowledge Harvard's special status with your potshots:</p>
<p>As Fiske declares in his widely-read Guide to Colleges (22nd edition, 2006) "An acceptance here is the gold standard of American education," and "at this point, Harvard is the benchmark against which all other colleges are compared."</p>
<p>Zephyr, how is stanford going?</p>
<p>Byerly, I read that too, and don't you think that Harvard's status perpetuates itself and is not really anything special? It may attract the best in the world and that keeps it the best, but I doubt that there are only 1000 (or however big the freshman class is) "best" in the world. </p>
<p>The only reason I don't like this is that it makes us assume that we should all want to get in to Harvard to prove ourselves. There are other awesome universities around.</p>
<p>It is certainly true that Harvard's well-earned reputation helps it not only to attract top applicants but to enroll a very high percentage of those it admits. </p>
<p>Obviously, there are many more talented students in the world than Harvard has room for, but its enduring ability to attract bright, ambitious, self-confident students willing and anxious to test themselves against "the best" helps to perpetuare its status as primus inter pares.</p>
<p>Fair? Who can say, but it is nevertheless true, and likely to remain so for the forseeable future.</p>
<p>It is certainly true that Harvard's well-earned reputation helps it not only to attract top applicants but to enroll a very high percentage of those it admits. </p>
<p>Obviously, there are many more talented students in the world than Harvard has room for, but its enduring ability to attract a disproportionate share of bright, ambitious, self-confident students willing and anxious to test themselves against "the best" helps to perpetuate its status as primus inter pares.</p>
<p>Fair? Who can say, but it is nevertheless true, and likely to remain so for the forseeable future.</p>
<p>Byerly, why on earth are you on this site? I suspect you're a Harvard graduate of twenty years back who's never amounted to much of anything, so you trumpet where you went to college to feel better. Yes, this is a school that produced more Rhodes scholars than any other, but it's also given the world Ted Kaczynski, along with countless thousand unremarkable bright people. Grow up.</p>
<p>I dunno, I thought his argument was fair. I think he overlooked the fact that other Ivies attract top students from around the world, it's not just Harvard.</p>
<p>Eh, what do you expect. It seems that Harvard is a bit of a cult, but I don't mind Byerly too much.</p>
<p>Many elites attract top students - not only Harvard and the Ivies. But I don't think its unfair to say that Harvard attracts more than its share.</p>
<p>And its not by accident, either. Harvard out-works and out-recruits just about every other school to maintain its position. </p>
<p>Its sort of like Duke in basketball; sure, you can sit back on your tail and wait for many top athletes to simply walk in the door, drawn by your reputation - but sooner or later your program will decline.</p>
<p>Nope... to stay on top, you have be pro-active - pushing hard to find the best kids and get them to apply.</p>
<p>Crimsonbulldog, Stanford is going swimmingly. I'm taking two seminar courses with distinguished professors and it is quite an academic experience.</p>
<p>Byerly, you're that the Harvard board is where the interesting threads are, most of time. First time in awhile for you, I think.</p>
<p>Your use of vocabulary is interesting "well-earned reputation" and "recruiting," for example. You say nothing about the actual educational experience at all, because it's hard for you to defend that, without a real core curriculum, etc. All of the things listed in my remarks above. </p>
<p>Harvard has to recruit so thoroughly because simple research would reveal it's not a great place for undergraduates.</p>
<p>Harvard has out-recruited its "competition" since the 1950's, which is why its student quality has risen to the top and stayed there. It is the very fact that top students are present in such great numbers that make its undergraduate experience so electric.</p>
<p>As Fiske says in his 2006 Guide to Colleges, "Harvard is the benchmark against which all other colleges are compared. It attracts the best students, the most academically accomplished faculty ... of any institution of higher education nationwide."</p>
<p>"It takes moxie to keep your self-image in the midst of all these geniuses, but most Harvard admits can handle it."</p>
<p>26th out of 31 in the COFHE is hardly "electric"!</p>
<p>Bylerly, the Friske guide would call podunk university "A world class and unique educational institution with a distinguished faculty and immensely talented student body". The guide isnt meant to be a comparative evaluation of colleges, so dont try to make it one.</p>
<p>BTW "It takes moxie to keep your self-image in the midst of all these geniuses, but most Harvard admits can handle it."</p>
<p>To read between the lines of your own quote, that means that some (maybe even many) admits cant handle it and crack down? They have self image problems? Or perhaps they are just unhappy? Recent surveys of Harvard students certainly would back up the unhappiness claim?</p>
<p>BTW Byerly, I know your style is just to smear whoever takes pardon to what you say, so I am ready for your personal attacks</p>
<p>There is a self-selection process, surely. Those who want the dean to tuck them in at night, or to have the college president invite them up to his house for milk and cookies on Sunday afternoons, generally don't apply to Harvard, and I wouldn't urge them to.</p>
<p>Harvard's greatest appeal is to bright, ambitious students not afraid to mix it up with the very best and to see how they stack up, relatively. </p>
<p>See: <a href="http://collegeadmissions.tripod.com/%5B/url%5D">http://collegeadmissions.tripod.com/</a> , where "The Laissez-Faire Ranking identifies quality with selectivity. It takes the historical and etymological view that a college is a "chosen company" and attempts to rank colleges by the membership they attract. It lets the best applicants point to the best colleges. Bright kids pay attention to selectivity when they look at colleges because they want to go where their peers are going. With their matriculation, they help compose a superior community, thereby confirming received opinion."</p>
<p>See, similarly: <a href="http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/hoxby/papers/revealedprefranking.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/hoxby/papers/revealedprefranking.pdf</a></p>
<p>Not many "crack down" - to borrow your phrase - and, in fact, Harvard has the highest graduation rate of any college or university in the United States of America. Almost nobody ever transfers out, and many top students from other schools are always anxious to transfer in.</p>
<p>But again, having the top students doesn't mean the educational experience is better.</p>
<p>Having a high matriculation rate students doesn't really mean much if they rate their school 26th out of 31! Perhaps they realized they made a mistake, but out of commitment to the name (which is why they matriculated anyway), they stick around.</p>
<p>(sigh) Whatever.</p>
<p>But, by the by, it is rather dishonest to charge that "they" rate Harvard 26 out of 31 in any category. "They" do nothing of the sort. Who were the other schools that Harvard students ranked "higher"?</p>
<p>That is a little like the famous PR list showing BYU to have the "greatest college library" ... but of course those easy-to-please BYU students had nothing to compare it with. Perhaps, unlike critical Harvard or Yale students, they wouldn't think to downgrade the local schoolbook depository because its not open 24/7!</p>
<p>wow...everyone here is so merciless! the penn forum is so much more relaxed...</p>
<p>^ I love the Penn forum as well. We're such a big happy family, none of this cut-throat attitude.</p>