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<p>I was going to say “that’s obvious,” but it struck me that to poor people who don’t have a lot of social capital, it <em>isn’t</em> obvious that the true wealthy aren’t necessarily the ones going around with (insert obvious luxury item of one’s choice). I mean, look at ghetto lifestyle which glamorizes very conspicuous and showy consumption. That isn’t how the <em>true</em> wealthy necessarily live.</p>
<p>Biologymaster, that there are far fewer PELL eligible students at Princeton, shows that the school is not accepting as many of the poorest students as Columbia. You can argue up down and around about it, but that is the bottom line. What it has to do with finanical aid, the costs, etc has little to do with that fact either. </p>
<p>I 'm no fan of Columbia either, but they do accept more of the students from poor households than Princeton does, and the PELL eligibility has nothing to do with the cost of the schools. FAFSA’s EFC calculator determines that. You get the same PELL eligibility regardless of school cost, unless the school cost is way down there, bordering on the amount of the grant itself. It’s meaningless when comparing costs of P with C. </p>
<p>Yes, NYC is very expensive, and it 's a tough go to live there. But some very, very poor people live in Harlem, Morningside HTs and the neighboring area, and they have to make a go of it. IF you learn to use the resources, you have plenty of them and company in being poor in NYC. The problem more is trying to keep up with those C students and the culture. My son lives not far from there, and he is poverty level. Lives on very, very little, and with many in the same situation. He volunteers at a soup kitchen and food pantry, works restauarants, and catering events for food. He has NO extra money other than the handouts he gets from us and his brothers, and that’s been slim picking as we are all getting tired of this starving artist family member. Yet, he is lucky, in that he has this very important buffer.</p>
<p>But he will tell you in an instant that few students are truly poor like the working and other non student residents in that part of town. He works at a number of charity centers and even the poorest Columbia student would not set foot in some of those places. But he knows where to get that free cuppa and other things–he’s not wanting for food as part of that vibrant community. But no, it’s not the same as student poor to be in some of those neighborhoods in NYC.</p>
<p>Following up on #278 and #282…</p>
<p>Here is an article that describes how some very highly paid people (professional athletes) go broke.</p>
<p>[Recession</a> or no recession, many NFL, NBA and Major League - 03.23.09 - SI Vault](<a href=“http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364]Recession”>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364)</p>
<p>Pizza, I think the 70’s were materially different (no pun intended) from the 80’s. My cohort missed Woodstock and were too young for the summer of love, but we very much absorbed those values. There was designer nothing available to buy in Providence Rhode Island in the 1970’s (an aging Woolworth’s downtown for anyone who wanted to save a few dollars on school supplies).</p>
<p>But the point is that the absence of the conspicuous consumption meant it was much easier for the have-nots to fit in. And the fact that most of the jet-setter’s lives that differed from ours took place during vacations (and in the pre-Facebook era, who knew about it anyway?) made it that much of a non-issue.</p>
<p>I do remember Freshman year there was an Art History assignment that we were supposed to complete over Christmas vacation-- and the professor was careful to assign a few paintings from the local, free museum (for those who were staying on campus) a few from museums around the world (for those who were not) and a caveat that you should pick the work that you would have access to most conveniently during the break. It hadn’t occurred to me up until then that a classmate who lived in Dallas might actually be spending Christmas in London or Paris!</p>
<p>Mountaingoat, you most certainly did have a lot to do with raising a kid like that.</p>
<p>I grew up in Harlem and my best friends growing up were two sisters, Afro-Dominican, one a year younger and one a year older. Both got full rides to Dana Hall (boarding school) for HS. When they came home for breaks the older one spoke of a girl who was the heir to “Chiquita Banana”…it was a tough adjustment for both to have very little when most of their peers had so much.</p>
<p>The older one wound up leaving and going to our local HS and eventually got pregnant and dropped out. The younger went on to become an attorney and is doing well.</p>
<p>One had the personality and drive or whatever to get over those vast disparities in income and deal, the other was overwhelmed by it and didn’t. Wish I could pinpoint what made it work for one and not the other.</p>
<p>Eastcoascrazy, thank you for the article. Yes, I see this all of the time in NYC and the wealthy bedroom communities around here. I have Nieman Marcus, Nordstroms, Bloomingdales within minutes for my house, and a mall that houses Rodeo Drive, 5th Avenue and Magnificent Milie shops. Those on the other side of the register, can scarcely buy the goods they sell. The stores need to be staffed, and those who can afford those luxuries, for the most part, are not about to be selling them at minimum wage. It’s astounding to me, how far some of those employees have to commute to have these jobs that don’t pay but a pittance.</p>
<p>Don’t be so sure of that. You can make a pretty penny selling women’s fashions at Neiman-Marcus. And the people at those places surely make more money than those working at Target or Walmart.</p>
<p>Perhaps, but they also have to dress like they belong in their upscale environments. Even with a good discount, the wardrobe costs can add up quickly.</p>
<p>Here’s a link to a piece that went viral a week or two ago. It was written by a woman who is living in poverty, struggling to work two jobs and take college level classes. This is probably a more typical story than that of the kid who makes it to the show (HYP, etc.)
[This</a> Is Why Poor People’s Bad Decisions Make Perfect Sense | Linda Tirado](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>This Is Why Poor People's Bad Decisions Make Perfect Sense | HuffPost Latest News)</p>
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<p>First of all. There is no one top tier private that gives significant amount of merit awards. Need based FA, yes; merit based awards, no. </p>
<p>Secondly, what measurements are you using to judge that those program far excelled those offered at the public?</p>
<p>I read the Luxury Goods article and never saw the word “empathy.” The upshot is that being “primed” or reminded about money (not having it) makes one desire to be independent, and supposedly (I did not have access to the portion of the study that uses the following word), this means one becomes “disinterested” in others.</p>
<p>I do think having financial security does give one more independence, in a freeing sort of way. Whether it causes one to become “disinterested” in others I cannot say.</p>
<p>The author seemed to be quite interested in how her customers behaved, which runs counter to her theory, which is that since she is constantly “primed” by money as result of being a cashier at a high-end mall, she is supposed to be disinterested in them.</p>
<p>Most of the sales clerks at those stores do not make much. More than at Target, yes, but not that much more. I know the salary scale. A great many of them here live with their parents and it’s hopefully a temporary job for them. Some of them are my sons’ peers. They can afford to work there, and dress like they belong there because they are not on their own yet. It’s a tough road for some of them who are transitioning to the other side of the counter at these luxury stores. </p>
<p>I read that piece, and wasn’t as impressed with it. I know many women, many families who live on very little money, and they do make the right choices in their lives. The problem when you are living so close to the edge is that there is no leeway for mistakes, often no second chances. But many do walk that line and have for a very long time. My mother lived within her means and made our family do so, on a low income, saving a substantial amount while doing so. </p>
<p>I have a hard time listening to the excuses some of our family members have made for their bad decisions. One cousin is perpetually short on funds, yet has thousands of dollars of tattos on her neck and arms. Her brother is saving for a “sleeve”. Neither are making a living wage, both have made such poor choices in life. Had they done a few things right, they would not be where they are, and they have hurt many family members terribly in taking this route.</p>
<p>Dad II, I know any number of families whos fin aid packages came out so that the family contributions were about the same at private and instate public schools. For those who prefer a smaller school, some of the privates are a better choice. Also there are a number of privates that are more selective and have a better academic rec than the state schools. Also many that do not. It can vary. </p>
<p>Back in the day, my brother was accepted to Rice, Duke, UNC-CH, UFl, UGA and the bottom line cost to him was within a thousand bucks among them all.</p>
<p>Dad II…wrongo. There are plenty of top schools that give merit aid. Even University of Chicago gives merit awards. So does UVA. Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice…and a number of other top schools. No…HYPSM don’t give merit aid…but you make it sound like there are no other top schools. Give it a break.</p>
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<p>Perhaps some of them are working at those stores specifically to get employee discounts, though even at employee discounts, buying a lot of luxury goods may not be the smartest personal financial move.</p>
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<p>Can you point to the post where I said poor kids were lazy?</p>
<p>I don’t think you are going to find it. Keep looking. It’s not there.</p>
<p>I worked at a department store during college (one of my numerous jobs), and did it first because I wanted to work (thanks to Dad), next, because I wanted more money as I don’t recall my parents giving me any beyond room and board, and finally because I loved clothes, so I wanted the discount.</p>
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<p>Why would I feel sorry for kids who overcame a rather large obstacle and are studying at a great school? I feel GREAT for those kids. I feel GREAT that they may be getting the tools to change the circumstances of their family forever.</p>
<p>Why would I feel sorry for them just because some kids have expensive stuff?</p>
<p>Why do you feel sorry for them? You should be thrilled for them.</p>
<p>Not all retail is the same. My BIL makes 6 figures at a very high end designer retail store in NYC. He’s not at the level of his customers, but still.</p>