<p>
</p>
<p>Why is it shameful to expect that those who have received something of great value express gratitude? They should be proud that they are where they are, not whining that some kid has more. That goes for anyone who receives a gift of great value not just college students from poor backgrounds.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Two words: Investment dressing. The person who works at Macy’s / Bloomingdale’s / Neiman-Marcus / whatever and uses the employee discount to buy a few good pieces that will be classic and last forever has made a smart financial decision. We’ve got to stop conflating “luxury” with “trendy” or “status-y” or “not worth anything incremental.” Sometimes that’s the case, sometimes it isn’t. But I digress.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If I’m going to feel sorry for someone, it isn’t going to be the poor-but-hardworking-A-student who landed that spot at (insert elite school of choice) that will be life-changing. It will be the poor-but-hardworking-B-student who’s going to find it a lot harder to rise above his or her background. I love how empathy only extends to A students around here!</p>
<p>That’s not my point at all, PG (or PP). I think growing up in difficult, unstable circumstances has a lasting effect on people. Four years of elite-college (or any college) paradise does not compensate for the hardship and deprivation some kids have endured for the previous 18 years. But of course I have more empathy for those who never have a chance to escape their poverty for any length of time, despite their efforts to do so.</p>
<p>I do agree with you about “investment dressing,” to a point. If nothing else working in upscale stores gives young people practice looking and acting poised and sophisticated. I know a young woman who came from pretty humble circumstances who has worked at J. Crew for years on top of a full-time design job at an ad agency. At age 26 she already looked like she should be running the agency–she certainly dressed the part (after spending all her J. Crew earnings on J. Crew clothes:)).</p>
<p>Why on earth is it wrong for someone to state that they feel out of place? How is that being ungrateful or whiny? I know that I can feel more than one emotion at once …</p>
<p>This is an issue that highly selective colleges do find it is important to address. Their dropout rates are very much related to economic status fo the students. They do set a side seats to give these kids chances, and to have them comprise a large percent of the drop outs is wasting those seats and not fulfilling their mission. To accept such students, give them large aid packages, and then let things go, is a waste of resources. </p>
<p>However, I do agree that this is a very small niche of students and they tend to be in far better shape than most of the students from poor familes that have to deal with schools that can’t even meet their needs and have little or no resources to help them, and in fact, have draconian policies to make sure the school get the money first from their students and milks them as much as they can in terms of federal/state monies. Some of those pracitces border on criminal, IMO.</p>
<p>There was a big hoopla about those kids who lose fin aid due to merit money, I remember. And, yes, it is unfair, but the fact of the matter is that the far more pressing problem is those who don’t get need met which is the case for the majority of students. I feel that way aobut this issue too.</p>
<p>But it is a fact, that you feel a lot poorer when you are among those who have more than you do. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king, they say, and so it goes with money. I always felt our family was pretty well to do as a kid, and we were because my mother managed our finances very well, cooked great meals, and we led a life of spending little when a lot of my peer had parents who were financially in trouble. Our electric was never shut off and our meals on the day before pay day were every bit as good and plentiful as the day before. My mother had several months’ pay tucked away so PayDay was not a redletter day at all for our family. </p>
<p>But when I went to college, whooie. It was a whole other scene. I went to a school where slightly mre than half were full pay and it was an expensive school. It was also highly selective, so most of the kid there came from families with far more culture, far more resources and much more money than my family had. I was on 2/3 fin aid due to need as well as having a bunch of merit awards. My parents weren’t paying much if anything for me or my brothes to go to school, and they did not have it to pay. I was definitely from a low income family and, yes, this was painfully clear, I was as compared to most of my classmates, dorm mates. , but there were some at the school that came from backgrounds where they had been truly deprived. Most of them did not make through freshman year sadly. They were not prepared for the rigors of a school like that.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You are so wrong on so many levels. I’m not going to cite exactly how much each one of my kids got, but it was enough that it brought the cost of those schools down to the cost of our flagship. My kids didn’t even apply for these merit awards; they were awarded them based on standard application materials. In fact, we didn’t even know the merit awards existed until each child got the award notice in the mail a few days after their acceptance to the school. And they were NOT need based. We do not qualify for need based; not even close. I started to fill out FAFSA for D1, and when I realized it wasn’t going to get us anything, I never even submitted it. So these merit awards were given exactly for that, their merit - what their achievements from their high school years, which, were quite substantial. D1 received one award and D2 actually received three separate awards. </p>
<p>D1 was a journalism/PR major; ask anyone who knows anything about J-school rankings. D1’s school is consistently ranked as one of the top three in the country by multiple reputable sources. Same with D2 and theatre; consistently ranked as one of the top BA theatre programs in the country (as an aside, Northwestern University also ranks as one of the top three J-schools, and also one of the top BA theatre schools, but neither daughter wanted to stay that close to home, so they would not apply; but Northwestern is the only school anywhere in our state that even comes close to the program reputations, and it’s obviously not our public flagship school). I realize your kids have not dabbled in journalism and/or theatre to the extent that they considered them as potential college majors; but to those who did consider these majors, and were willing to expand their college search to schools across the country, both my Ds schools ranked very high.</p>
<p>The issue is DadII’s definition of a “top tier school”. Stanford, I guess, counts because they don’t give merit aid. U of Chicago does not count as a top tier, I guess…because they give merit aid. </p>
<p>There are many top tier schools that give very substantial merit awards. Not HYPSM…but really, are those the ONLY top schools on the planet? NO!</p>
<p>Thank you Kelsmom, exactly. More than one emotion is allowed, imagine that. </p>
<p>Bay, in no way am I advocating that we all need to throw them pity parties. But what’s the point of having these students suppress their very real feelings of inadequacy when they are asked to describe their experience? Clearly, the published statistics predict that many URMs and lower SES students will enroll but never complete their undergrad degrees and therefore, will remain in the vicious cycle of poverty. The lack of support and otherness could play a role in that. </p>
<p>It’s just really pompous to sit there from your easy chairs and compare your middleclass to upperclass gap with what they are experiencing to show that it can be done without a lot of “whining.” It misses the point completely and serves to discredit their experience which smacks of intolerance.</p>
<p>Salve,</p>
<p>You are obviously one of those posters who “hears” only what you want to hear on the thread, and not was is actually written.</p>
<p>I don’t have a problem with poor students sharing how they feel about going to elite schools, and never said I did.</p>
<p>The only thing I said that might be worth debating me over is that I don’t feel sorry for them. And apparently you agree that pity is not necessary. So what, exactly is your beef with me, other than making me into some imaginary “pompous” bad guy?</p>
<p>Oh I feel such shame. My Rice grad must not have attended a “top tier” school because he got merit $$. How will I ever show my face again.</p>
<p>Sad that some think that the USNews “top tier” rankings mean anything in the real world.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Oh for crying out loud, Pizzagirl, this is the Parents Forum in College Confidential after all. When we see anything remotely connected to HYP-S, collectively, our empathy glands go into over drive. Who cares about those plebs that get a lousy secondary education in this country or has the misfortune/teremity of going to some no-name universities.</p>
<p>You are so right, furrydog. They hardly deserve mention around here :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Bay I don’t have a “beef” with you. We are discussing our points of view. I am listening here and the overall tone of this thread is that FA kids admitted to elite schools should just take their FA and shut it. </p>
<p>When people’s response to articles like the one posted by OP is ‘I don’t feel sorry for them,’ or “we all got problems,” it just misses the point. I don’t know maybe I just feel like that attitude isn’t a positive point of view, and to me and a few others here, sounds arrogant and unproductive.</p>
<p>Ok, well I think you sound like a bossy know-it-all, so we’re even. ;)</p>
<p>We all don’t have to feel the same way about this, and reacting differently doesn’t mean that someone is right and the others are wrong. All feelings are valid, remember?</p>
<p>yes, i am bossy know it all 
and my comment posted before i had to chance to add just that, all feelings are valid!</p>
<p>PP sigh…I guess that we will have to, like Bay, agree to disagree. FA is not a gift per se, and admission to an elite college is earned not charity. Notwithstanding your description, receiving a gift and being grateful regardless of the fit so to speak, is not genuine. Why isn’t it ok to say thank you, it’s not what I’m used to, but I will make it work?</p>
<p>Furthermore, when I gift, I always add, if it doesn’t fit or it’s the wrong color, please let me know, I will exchange, modify, etc. so that it works for you. I don’t say take it or leave it, that’s not in the gift-giving spirit. But, that’s belaboring the point and methinks I’ve stretched that metaphor too far. </p>
<p>I stand by my post in #315, not validating their feelings of inadequacy is unproductive given that many will fail out. Arrogant and unproductive POV, just this mater’s opinion</p>
<p>No-one is not validating feelings. There have been many efforts made to make life easier for them and maybe there could be a few more. But, that’s not the point. Things will never be equal. Well, unless they graduate and go on to be the enormous success stories that everyone hopes they will become. It is a huge gift. They should be and no doubt are extremely grateful. And, they have some culture shock and some continuing challenges. It doesn’t have to be either/or here.</p>
<p>I’m much more fascinated by some of these posters perceptions of what it’s like to be poor in America. These are high-achieving students who undoubtedly had some wonderful family support. Heck, some of these families are posters on this board. All this talk about trauma and pity and starving and cold and desperate is perhaps a little extreme. I mean, poor is awful but jeez. And, I do know what I’m talking about. I’m not just guessing and making myself feel better because I feel bad about some perceived anonymous misery.</p>
<p>acting, you don’t think that saying “we all got problems” is dismissive and non-validating? hmm guess I’m not as desensitized as y’all. I agree that the cold and starving theme is extreme for our purposes. However, poverty encompasses more than the physical aspect. You don’t have to be starving and homeless to experience adversity, there’s poor home life, poor public education, etc. </p>
<p>And yes, agreed, personal triumphs achieved by people like Justice Sotomayor and even folks on this forum is fascinating.</p>
<p>“acting, you don’t think that saying “we all got problems” is dismissive and non-validating?”</p>
<p>I think it’s dismissive and non-validating to assume that because someone is wealthy that they have no problems / nothing to worry about / a charmed, perfect life. We all have our struggles and burdens to bear. Some are socioeconomic, others aren’t.</p>