<p>I didn’t see it as whining. It’s an article and the reporter was asking the question about what was different between them and other students at their school. It’s a story and the journalist needed an angle. </p>
<p>And hey I am over 50. But it is still hard for me when it feels like everyone else is taking great vacations and renovating their kitchens. I don’t feel like I whine about it but I certainly notice the difference.</p>
<p>What if they have to work more than one job in order to send money home?</p>
<p>Adding: I think I heard that at Princeton (where mini’s D went), even the washer/driers are free (included).</p>
<p>Umich is probably not one of the wealthiest student bodies in the country, and my parents were certainly not poor, but for the first time in my life I felt poor there. People acted like I was poor. I can think of more than one occasion where something like the following occurred: we were all sitting in a small classroom chatting while the prof had stepped out, and my classmates were all discussing their favorite European countries to visit-- apparently they had all been to enough to debate the merits of each compared to four or five others. I’ve never been to Europe and probably never will be. I remember overhearing a conversation where a student had said, “I hope to make 60k in my first job after graduation,” (at which point I almost laughed because I knew more like 30k was more realistic) and her friend exclaimed, “but you’ll be DESTITUTE with 60k!? You won’t be able to afford an Iphone!!!” I took an American politics class where a large contingent of my discussion section made the argument that not only should we not have universal healthcare, but we should abolish health insurance (and welfare) entirely because health insurance coddles people who can’t otherwise manage their money to pay their own medical bills, and rather than providing programs to solve social problems rich people should mentor the poor homeless Detroiters in investing so they can build up their portfolio and live off investment income-- seriously. I couldn’t afford the clothes the other girls were wearing or anything like that. I had a hallmate my first year who woke up every morning, spread out all her tiffany and similar jewelry on a towel in the hall bathroom, and tried everything she had on with her outfit and ask everybody what they thought before she would leave for school in the morning-- an outfit she promptly covered up with her Northface parka and Ugg boots. I kept waiting to see a diamond studded curling iron. My best friend, who I still cherish to this day, lived in a private apartment right in downtown Ann Arbor that her parents paid for with a generous allowance that allowed eating out for every meal and recreational shopping-- but still considered herself a “poor college student” and couldn’t comprehend that NO, I really could not afford to go out for lunch, not every day, not even every month, but that did NOT mean that I didn’t want to hang out with her. I was continually trying to convince her to come over and watch a movie with me on TV or something instead of going to the movie theater and she just could not comprehend.</p>
<p>It was an odd experience. It didn’t bother me, as I said my parents weren’t actually poor so I wasn’t exactly suffering though I was trying to pay ALL my expenses on student loans, but it really felt like I’d landed on Mars and come to stay for a few years. I have never met stranger people in my life. They thought I was plain bizarre, too. Which again, I was fine with, I did not want Tiffany jewelry or trips to Europe, but it would have been nice to find friends who were more accustomed to roughing it with PBJ and the movie channel instead of dinner and a movie every week. Once they invite you out a couple of times and you don’t go they just stop hanging out with you at all.</p>
<p>In my opinion, there are challenges for poor kids fitting in at top schools, but the problem is not quite as bad as this article suggests. These days, there are many students on FA at top schools, and while they may not be from families struggling with poverty, they don’t have Rolex watches and Birkin bags, either. Also, it seem to me that this issue may vary depending on how much financial differences are obvious at the particular college. At Yale (which is the one I know about), all dorms cost the same, and students who live in the dorms are (mostly) on a full meal plan. On-campus events–of which there are many–are free or cheap. There is money around for things like summer fellowships, and there is support for poor kids to go on musical group tours and the like. Clothes are mostly casual. Does this mean that there are no difficulties for really poor kids? Not at all. But the difficulties are somewhat minimized.</p>
<p>But the purpose of the college isn’t merely to provide an education. According to the colleges themselves, it’s to create a community where all the students learn from one another and build connections with classmates with contrasting experiences. They’re also supposed to be having a rich experience with music, art, sports, etc. on campus. If that isn’t working as well as it should, students of any economic level should be able to discuss it and seek changes. Ditto if professors fail to understand who is in their classes, as the article covers.</p>
<p>I’m the last person to have patience with ingratitude on the part of ANY student who gets to go to these schools, but I don’t read ingratitude here. I read discussion of a complicated challenge. When I evaluate whether a school is serving its students well, everybody’s experience counts in the equation.</p>
<p>I agree with Hunt that the Harvard/Yale approach, where almost everyone lives in randomly assigned housing on campus at the same price and with a full meal plan, reduces the problem. The smaller role of the Greek/club/society system on those campuses relative to Penn/Cornell/UVA helps, too.</p>
<p>@Emaheevul07 I definitely agree that there are colleges where wealth is more on display, and I was surprised myself that UMich was one of them. I used to joke that you could tell it was spring because the jeeps would be blooming. Yes, some undergrads had two cars – one for winter and one for summer. No undergrad I knew at my alma mater (where there must have been plenty of wealth) had a single car.</p>
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<p>It’s probably not too far off from it though. I think we have the wealthiest student body of public schools. I recall reading that or hearing that somewhere but I don’t have a source handy. </p>
<p>I don’t know why you’d let the conversation about international traveling bother you so much. As for starting salary, I don’t know what you majored in but in Engineering 60K is pretty baseline and 6 figures is not uncommon. Perhaps they were just a different major than you if it was so surprising? I can’t really comment on whatever stupid thing someone said in your politics class but neither being rich nor being poor shields anyone from having to sit and listen to someone say something stupid. And sure, you’re gonna see people that have more money than you. But nothing you said sounds like a big deal.</p>
<p>Proudpatriot, I am sorry you are having trouble “getting” the point of some of these posts. </p>
<p>I understand that it is frustrating when you might be struggling too and you don’t want to hear about others who are getting help “whining” about anything. The thing is, we all have struggles in our own way and have feelings about our own situations. Whether you approve of their feelings or not, those are their feelings and we don’t have the right to tell someone how they should feel. </p>
<p>Yes, they are being given a great opportunity and they do realize that, but that doesn’t negate their feeling of being different. If a middle income student feels left out because they can’t do whatever their wealthier classmates are doing that is a legitimate feeling too. Those students are getting help from their parents to just make ends meet, and less wealthy students are getting help from FA just to make ends meet. Both will feel left out if they can’t join their friends when they go out to a club, or flit off to Europe for spring break, but that is life. </p>
<p>The bottom line is whether they get help or not, are being given a wonderful gift (from their parents or elsewhere) living among people with very different financial opportunities can make someone feel different. Pointing out those differences in not the same as whining. The person discussing the 200 dress pointed it out as an example of a difference, but found her own way and fashion style. She wasn’t whining, she was explaining the differences she noted. </p>
<p>I am sorry but it does sound like you are the one whining and a bit resentful that someone is getting aid and your child isn’t.</p>
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<p>That’s quite a leap.</p>
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<p>It is how I feel :-)</p>
<p>I say let everybody complain as much as they want, but it seems to me that this is just one of a number of things that cause problems for kids in adjusting to life at college. Kids from small towns, kids from weak high schools, kids whose parents did everything for them, kids whose parents did nothing for them, kids from conservative backgrounds at liberal colleges (and vice versa)–all of these have issues in adjusting. I agree that colleges need to be thoughtful in dealing with the issues (like the cost of books)–but the social adjustment part is something that everybody has to deal with one way or the other.</p>
<p>What’s surprising to me about these articles is that people seem surprised to learn that being poor is unpleasant. </p>
<p>These very lucky kids have worked hard and just got a big boost out of poverty. There may be some bumps in the road but it’s a very nice road, overall. For those sensing a lack of compassion I don’t quite see it that way. Nor, do I think a bunch of rich kids feeling sorry for them solves anything. They have to figure out how to fit in and I’m sure many manage to do that quite nicely.</p>
<p>I think the students are getting a great deal by being able to attend elite schools. The same students will end up in debt when they go to State schools since many don’t cover the need in the form of grants. So it is one of those things where one is hanging out with rich kids with all the amenities and privileges but feel poor and hang out with regular kids and accumulate debt. </p>
<p>Which one should they choose?</p>
<p>There are a few issues with financial aid and top schools.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Many require jobs on campus to cover some of the college costs so they may not have any money left over that they can use to cover other expenses.</p></li>
<li><p>If they do work in summer jobs and make good money, they may be required to contribute to school even when they have nothing left over.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I think the policies of FA keep the students somewhat poor intentionally although some of them should have the opportunities to make good money once they have finished an year in school. I can’t see people attending Harvard or Yale not being able to make 5-10k during summer but they may be penalized for having those earnings.</p>
<p>This is where I have a problem.</p>
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<p>My S got a 2300+ with no prep at all, much less a class or a tutor. Anecdotal evidence is not data.</p>
<p>When S went to college in 2008, we were definitely down in the bottom quarter of income defined by the article. He qualified for very close to a full ride at his Ivy. (He had some money put aside for him in better times, but no more than $20K.) He certainly had friends whose parents showered them with money and expensive electronics, etc There were kids with ski vacations and all the rest. There were kids with very expensive cars on campus. When he did a term abroad–covered by FA–we bought his plane ticket but he had to come up with his own spending money. Some kids were able to spend time traveling around Europe before and after, or during. He did take the train to Switzerland from Paris to visit our former exchange student one weekend, but that was the extent of his travel. He had to pinch pennies. He had to work to have spending money. When members of his frat were drumming up participants for their annual trip to Montreal, he has to tell them that he couldn’t afford it. </p>
<p>But I never got the sense that he considered himself a fish out of water. I think this was largely because he came from a family that was upper-middle class in background and experience and outlook, even if our finances were very straightened for a number of years. He grew up with the cultural capital that many kids from low income families lack.</p>
<p>I think that a lot of what is discussed in the article is class identification, not income per se.</p>
<p>Another thing that really strikes me about this: I went to Wellesley in the early 70s. There were PLENTY of wealthy students, both domestic and international, there. There were plenty of us who had lived abroad, and traveled quite extensively. But it was very uncommon to see the kind of conspicuous consumption described in the article. Students did not dress in designer clothing. Many students from middle and upper-middle families did not get an allowance from their parents, or if they did it was very modest. Most students had summer jobs. (This was before the days of internships.) Maybe it has to do with the type of school, but things seem to have changed quite a bit.</p>
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<p>Where are the summer jobs that pay students that much? I am not being sarcastic, I actually want to know.</p>
<p>So, my son made that much as a lifeguard last summer. The upper end of that much. And, in reality he could have worked more than he did. 5K seems very doable for a basic summer job.</p>
<p>I generally made around 10k each summer. I was very fortunate to have a state job where I worked 40 hours a week at about $13/hour. I also worked 8-10 hour shifts at my ws job on weekends. </p>
<p>However, it was a tradeoff. I had to continue to pay for housing for summer, couldn’t do summer internships, etc. And, lets be honest, working 60 hour weeks suck 
(I continued to go to school year round so I could keep my jobs as they were only for students and I had the aid to cover most of my tuition).</p>
<p>I want no one’s sympathy. Furthest from it, but what I dislike is this myth on cc that poor kids somehow have it easy once they get in to those five schools or so that meet full aid.</p>
<p>"Where are the summer jobs that pay students that much? I am not being sarcastic, I actually want to know. "</p>
<p>Depends on the field. D made 5k working at a national lab (spent 4k for living). She mentioned a friend making 50 dollars an hour in the computer sciences area doing programming somewhere (10 weeks - 20k). </p>
<p>edit - Among her sophomore classmates whom I know, I don’t know of a single person who did not work during the past summer.</p>
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<p>I can tell you where they aren’t: around here. Seasonal jobs typically pay close to minimum wage. A $13/hr job is not common here, and they are held by adults, not by college kids.</p>