As a foreign student with these qualifications, what are my chances for Ivy League atm?

Chance Me / Match Me!
21

If you want to come to the US because you prefer the system (broader curriculum) and location then that’s fine. But you have to be prepared to take a step down in terms of the perceived prestige of the school you might get into.

So you can’t also say you want to attend the best college for economics, because if you were doing that you’d apply in the UK. Oxbridge carries plenty of prestige in the US too (more than LSE), and it is probably better to do undergrad in the UK and then a grad degree in the US if you ultimately want to work here.

Go ahead and apply, but as other posters are warning you, if you just apply to Ivies, there is a high chance (probably >50%) that at the end of the year you’ll have no acceptances.

There are UK posters who’ve been applying in the US this year with kids who were going to easily get into Oxbridge and who found it a very frustrating process. Compare yourself to @Tamarix’s D for example.

22

@Twoin18
To answer your question - I do want to attend the best university in Economics. However, keeping in mind that I am a more well-rounded student that most people at my school, and that I will be taking the IB diploma, a US university is one that will credit me most for my broader skill set (having taken English, Math, humanity, science, language as well as art).
I want to be in an environment that will nurture all of these subjects as I am interested in all of them. I do prefer the US curriculum, and also wish to apply to the best college for Economics at the same time, and US universities fit the bill better than UK universities (according to my preferences anyway!)

Thanks for your help!

23

@Twoin18 I actually did want to apply to both the UK and US at first - but my university counselor advised me against it as it would be too much to bite off. (btw she worked in admissions in the US)

24

Many UK schools strongly discourage applying to both, because they don’t want to write a strong recommendation then disappoint Oxbridge colleges who expect admitted students to attend (domestic yield is something like 98%). But in the US, anyone who applies to the UK is certain to also be applying to multiple US schools as well. The UK process is trivially easy by comparison, the only real work is prepping for Oxbridge tests and interviews. It’s crafting the US applications that takes ten times more work. So anyone discouraging you from applying to both is more likely to be looking out for their own school’s interests than yours.

25

No matter the stats, you need to be the person they want. It’s not about being a “future leader,” it’s the four years. But leadership qualities matter- that’s vision and drives, how you do more than just amble along. That’s not a contest or award here or there.

Right now, a hobby, some certification and award, aren’t enough. It’s not about curing cancer, but further choices you do make. That either shows in your record or not. It reflects one’s thinking and awareness of what is possible.

It’s not about spike. They like depth and breadth.

26

@lookingforward How can I demonstrate this? As I have mentioned before, I take Art instead of team sports or orchestra and there isn’t any opportunity for leadership. I was considering applying for Head girl and probably will go for it, but all those positions in school aren’t determined by skill, but popularity. Popularity in my school is very messed up - it appears that the more you drink and the more illegal things you do, the more popular you get.

So I am stuck and am not really sure what to do!!

27

“all those positions in school aren’t determined by skill, but popularity”

Which is a good read across to US admissions. They don’t care about simply admitting the smartest kids, they want leaders. If you could persuade people to vote for you because they respect you, despite you not drinking etc, then that would be ideal. Or if you do all the “popular” things but are still extremely smart then that works too. Understand the difference in cultures: US kids are brought up to sell themselves (or other things like lemonade or girl scout cookies), by presenting in class from kindergarten onwards. That’s not the UK culture.

28

Unfortunately, for a tippy top, it’s something you need to be able to explore, be the sort who sees your opportunities.

Note, I didnt say “leadership positions”. True leadership isn’t about titles. It’s how you do engage, get involved, make some difference, even small. So what is available around you? How do you pursue your academic interests (ongoing) with others, not just school.things, how are you personally growing, taking responsibilities,having an affect, etc?

You need to sit back and assess. Learn what matters to each college. This is holistic and for US tippy tops, a fierce competition.

29

@lookingforward I was thinking of starting to tutor younger kids - would that count?

30

If there are no leadership positions, true leaders make their own opportunities, don’t they?

OP, I don’t mean to be harsh, but you need a reality check. You have excellent grades and are clearly very capable. But what you don’t seem to understand is that there are tens of thousands of students like you who will also be applying to the same schools. What sets you apart? What makes you the kind of leader that Harvard or Yale is looking for? That’s not something any of us can answer for you. You need to answer that for yourself.

Having a math “spike” and tutoring younger students isn’t going to cut it. These are things that will be seen on just about every other application under review.

You say you’re not “interested” in going to anything but a top tier school. I’m curious - what is your backup plan for if you don’t get in?

31

For colleges that like to see expansive thinking, perspective, awareness, etc, and corresponding actions, you need to climb past the hs mode, think more broadly. There are opportunities and needs all around you. Plenty of the competition will have done this.

32

@rad1804, all the students in higher level may be invited to participate in the UKMT, but afaik only the highest 1000 scores in the UK get invited to sit the Olympiad Round 1, and the top 100 scores of those get invited to Round 2. At that point you are competing at a level that would be interesting.

As for Kumon, it’s not that it’s too “studious”- but (again, imo) it’s like setting any individual goal whose main purpose is the doing of it- that’s why I referenced mountain climbing. I know an applicant whose goal is to climb every mountain over a certain height. There is nothing wrong with that! But if you are thinking that finishing Kumon will give you an edge in admissions, it probably won’t. It is possible that my mountain climbing friend will be able to write a great essay about (for example) how mountain climbing is a great metaphor for his goals in life, and how the way he has approached it has changed over time in ways that parallel how he has grown and change- and that some Admissions Officer will read that essay and think that is just the kind of kid we need on our campus! But it will be what he does with it in the essay, not the activity itself, that will make the difference, not just the doing of it. As the Applying Sideways piece notes- do it because you love doing it, not because you think it will impress somebody else. It is pretty hard to impress the AOs at the tippy top schools.

33

Think about how to tell a coherent story. Here’s a example from one of my kids (who had perfect grades and great stats and still didn’t have a real chance of getting into Ivies, though he did get into Berkeley and similar colleges). My S was always interested in politics. He emailed the local mayor and got himself a summer internship. He got involved in a couple of national youth politics organizations. He was on the board of a local youth sports association (organizing not participating).

And he ended up as senior class president, not because he ever went to parties, but because the girl who did and everything thought would win, actually didn’t care enough to do a good job on the leadership committee the previous year. So he figured out how to get people (mostly girls) to vote for him who were fed up with her not being responsible, and also spent time reaching out to the freshmen who turned out to vote for him (he knew quite a few of them through sports). Then after he won, he managed to change the rules for future contests by putting the voting online and getting the school administration to agree to set aside 15 minutes in class for everyone to listen to the (recorded video) speeches and vote (after all the teachers wanted a competent class president, not just a popular one), so it wasn’t just about who could corral the most friends. All that meant he had a story that he could tell in his college apps - a long term interest in politics, combined with service and leadership. But he didn’t have any hooks so was still very unlikely to get into any tippy top schools.

So when you think about math and tutoring younger students, look at the combination and think bigger. For example, setting up a math club for underprivileged primary school kids, where you coordinate several of your friends to help run it, find a location, get sponsorship, liaise with schools, and get coverage in local newspapers. That’s the sort of thing the competition will have done.

34

But just saying: in general, tutoring younger kids is not a challenge that leads to insights and personal growth. It works better for kids aiming for, say, an education related major and possibly teaching.

I advocate 3 prongs. First, what you do for self interests. Hobbies, your dance, something toward your future goals. (All those stem kids getting outside experiences, other kids working directly for local or state causes or getting relevant experiences, etc.) Then, what you do for and with your groups. School peer clubs/activities, cultural, religious, etc. And last, what you do about needs around you. That you see needs and commit to roll up your sleeves. Not random hours.

It’s a widening circle, from your personal out. Dance fits the first bullet. Language and math awards or certs don’t. Ime, lots of kids vol for Red Cross, but rarely can they describe more than admin help. It’s not working with the needy or active in other ways.

(Edit for typos only)

35

@trixy34 thanks for your perspective. The truth is, I am very new to all this. My school, although it is a very famed and prestigious one, doesn’t seem to have lots of kids sent over to the US to Top tier schools - rarely any get into Oxbridge or LSE, let alone a top tier US college.
So far, I have only talked to my University Counselors and all she has told me is to get the best grades that I can, which I now know won’t cut it!
I Guess my backup plan would be to do my under grad in the UK at Oxbridge and then post grad at an Ivy because I know that is common to do.

Hopes this explains!
Thanks again!

36

Your school’s guidance counselor is not being very realistic unless they want a top student forced to take a gap year due to their bad advice - it’d be pretty damning for a top private school, right?

You have two choices:
1° build a real college list the way top American students do, with 2 “likelies/safeties”, 3-5 “matches” (<- that means 50/50 odds of acceptance) and as many reaches as you wish or can afford.
Kids who only apply to Top 25 universities/LACs more ofthen than not end up completely shut out due to their sheer hubris.
OR
2° Shot Gun Ivy+ colleges and NESCAC/Claremonts AND ALSO apply through UCAS with two solid safeties there.

Anyway, any college with sub 25% acceptance rate is a lottery school for all, including Americans, but even more so a British student. Keep in mind that’s lower than Oxbridge rates. So, your odds of getting into, say, Vassar, as an international, are probably the same as getting into Cambridge. Your odds of getting into Wellesley or Pomona or Yale are wayyy lower than that.
If you don’t want to be shut out, you need to apply widely.
That means finding good Honors Colleges, such as USC Columbia’s, Penn State Schreyer’s, UMichigan’s LSA Honors. Those are really difficult to get into but if you apply to a few you have a shot. The essay topics tend to be academic, which should be your forte, and you’d have all of July to write them.
That also means finding guaranteed Honors Colleges or highly (but not below 25%) selective LACs that you like and can afford - perhaps UAlabama Honors+University Fellows or Mount Holyoke College or StLawrence or St Olaf or Dickinson…
https://www.shc.psu.edu/
https://www.sc.edu/study/colleges_schools/honors_college/
https://www.pomona.edu/
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/
https://www.wellesley.edu/admission
https://honors.ua.edu/programs/university-fellows-experience/
https://www.utdallas.edu/mcdermott/
https://wp.stolaf.edu/
https://www.stlawu.edu/
https://www.dickinson.edu/
https://www.vassar.edu/

Get a Princeton review’s guide to the best colleges. Start reading.

US colleges want leadership - not tutoring lower grade students (which is fine if you’re aiming, say, for Iowa State or Cal State Chico, including Honors), but building a whole tutoring operation for students outside your school, with a dozen other students following your lead. Or being a nationally-recognized dancer, musician, athlete, chess player. Internationally-known is even better of course.

Since you’re very good at French, take the SAT Subject in June. You’d probably do well with the English Literature test. Each test is 1H and fully multiple choice.