So I am a foreign student attending a British school and I have yet to sit my IGCSEs but my mock exam results are as follows:
Eng Lit: 7
Eng Lang: A
Math: 9
French: 9
Art: 8
Bio: 8
Chem: 8
Physics: 8
Comp Sci: A*
Econs: A*
Add Math: A (max grade)
A grade 9 is above an A* and an 8 is an A*. What should I aim for the exams?
I am also aiming for Harvard or another Ivy League for economics and will be taking my SATs soon, and subject tests too (Math level 2, French with listening)
Do my ECs have to be related to what I intend to major in? At the moment, this is what I will have:
- Jazz dance for 3 years
- 1 DELF exam certificate + more in the next 2 years
- Silver in UKMT this year, and aiming for gold and above next year
- University of Waterloo math comp next year
- Complete Kumon math before uni
- Will be volunteering at Red Cross for next 2 years starting this summer after my exams
- I will also be taking edx online courses on econs/math - I want to know if these are actually helpful and will it help my admission?
I will also be taking IB next year (Math analysis, Econs, CS HL), (Eng lit lang, French, art SL)
What should I expect?
What grades should I aim for?
And also, are my aims too unrealistic/ aspirational?
What are my chances at the moment?
Thanks x
For starters, you never mentioned money. Let’s assume you’re not hoping for financial aid, because that shrinks already small numbers.
Everyone who applies to the Ivies is incredibly, amazingly qualified. They have amazing grades, amazing extra curricular activities, amazing service.
Yet those few schools can only accept a tiny little percentage of those amazing applicants.
Throw in the fact that you’re international, and those tiny little percentages shrink.
By all means, apply to the Ivies if you think you have a shot. But know that NO ONE has anything close to a “good” shot at the Ivies, regardless of their qualifications.
Be sure to come up with some schools you can afford to attend that offer you better chances at acceptance.
Hey @bjkmom . Thanks so much for your reply. Money isn’t a problem - my parent will be prepared to pay if the university is an Ivy.
However, you didn’t mention what I should aim for in future exams.
I know that good grades are never enough, but is there anything that will help to significantly boost my application? My application process is about to start next year and I’m worried…
Thanks again!
You should aim for the highest scores you can get. If you think there is a threshold grade you can achieve that will gain you admission, you are sorely mistaken.
What are you worried about? That you won’t be admitted to an ivy league school? Tens of thousands students apply and don’t get in every year. There is life afterward.
Hey @Trixy34 , thanks for your reply.
Of course, I am aware that thousands get rejected every year, but - my parents being Tiger Asian parents have simply refused to pay unless it is an Ivy or an equally respectable top tier school!!!
Which has left me with no option but to do my best to get in!
Based on your interest in economics, most Ivies represent good choices, though you also probably should consider similarly regarded schools for this field:
https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.usecondept.html
https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html
“However, you didn’t mention what I should aim for in future exams.
I know that good grades are never enough, but is there anything that will help to significantly boost my application? My application process is about to start next year and I’m worried…”
-What should you aim for on exams? Perfection, or close to it, and even that probably won’t be enough. DS had 36 ACT, 800, 790, 780 on subject tests and fives on all his AP exam. Still got rejected from the two Ivies he applied to. And he wasn’t applying as an international.
-What do you need to significantly help boost your application? You don’t have a hook, so you need a major spike that sets you apart from all the other international applicants. That means something like a big time award that will impress AO’s, or some unique talent, like a lead role in the Harry Potter movies (admittedly, an extreme example, but you get the idea).
Hey @TheBigChef , thanks for your reply. I was planning on making my math my spike - Are the competitions and completing Kumon math not enough for that?
What more can I do to further develop this spike?
Some helpful links http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics Based on this web page, Harvard College has 81 students from the United Kingdom attending, or about 20 per class, which implies 20-25 get accepted per year. Here is the latest Common Data Set http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics which will give you an idea of the range of test scores you will need to hit. But beyond the objective stat’s, Harvard (and the other top tier schools) look for much more. They are looking for future leaders, whether in their professions, or public and private service. They are also looking for students who they feel will make their school a richer place for everyone in their community. See this link for more insights on what is being evaluated. https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-look-at-harvards-admissions-guidelines-1539804848.
I think it is important for your parents to gain a more realistic view of the admissions process to US elite schools. Many old school Asian Tiger parents grew up in a world where the only thing that mattered was 1 national college entrance test score, where if you just crammed a little harder, you might get the extra point to get you over the top. Not so in the States. There are plenty of 1600/4.0 students who get rejected. Here is a link to some Stanford statistics when they used to give you more detailed data https://admission.stanford.edu/apply/selection/profile16.html. Note the low admit rates for applicants who hit the top of some of the objective categories you are worried about. You should share this with your parents.
I don’t know much about the competitions that you listed, but generally speaking, the competitions have to lead to awards the Admissions Officers know about and will be impressed by - not some local thing that they have never heard of before.
@BKSquared Thanks so much. I seem to see the same thing on every website I visit - about being a future leader attracting Harvard - but I want to know what types of things I can do exactly to prove myself. What are some activities I can engage in?
I don’t play any musical instrument or team sports to allow me to be a captain in any way - I instead have been taking Art IGCSE and will take it in IB too as an SL subject. I’m not really sure what I can do to prove myself to be a future leader…
Thanks again!
@TheBigChef the UKMT competition is the United Kingdom Math Competition (senior)for the whole of the UK! I got silver and aim for gold next year. Kumon is a rigorous Japanese math company that makes students complete levels of increasing difficulty so I guess its quite an accomplishment.
Can’t you just go to Oxbridge? That seems much more plausible given your strong exam results but distinct lack of true standout ECs. Getting into top US schools requires a completely different approach with a heavy focus on ECs. Think of it like this, the difficulty level of US high school courses and standardized tests is much lower than UK A levels (though there is more busy work and continuous assessment), so the trick is to do your HS work and get near perfect results, while devoting 20-30 hours per week to sports or ECs. Or have some hook in terms of legacy, poverty, ethnicity, sport, etc.
If I was to point to one thing you could do to have a stronger application it would be to get to IMO level in math, since that seems to be your spike. But while that would guarantee Oxbridge admission, there are no such guarantees at top US schools.
Be aware that this is far from unique.
You should also be aware that perfect grades and SAT scores are far from a guarantee. Ivy League schools routinely reject applicants with perfect scores and accept some with lower scores. You also need to be aware that the acceptance rate for international applicants at many of these schools is roughly half the overall rate, so 2% for Harvard/Yale.
As for ideas of what you should do: MIT’s site has many great articles that apply to other colleges as well.
https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways/
The answer to your question is that your chances are very slim. As they are for all students, especially internationals. IMO, you are already doing what you need to do in terms of competitions, awards, and ECs.
At this point, put your energy into preparing for the SAT and your subject tests. They need to be near perfect.
I would also highly recommend you have a solid list of schools in your home country if your parents will only pay for Ivy/equivalent schools.
@Twoin18 The only UK college I’m interested in is LSE - because Oxbridge isn’t the best for economics and I want to major in econs at the best university. However, my university counselor has urged me not to apply to both the US and UK because the admission process for US and UK clash completely and is very difficult to do simultaneously. Thus, my decision to look at the US.
You are underestimating Oxbridge and overestimating what colleges you have a decent chance of admission to in the US. For example you could consider Berkeley as a realistic reach objective (though it’s far from guaranteed). But I’d be hard pressed to view that as a better choice than Oxbridge for economics (even though it has perhaps the biggest gap between the high regard it is held in internationally vs what US students and parents think of it), whether you looked at PPE or the more dedicated economics course at Cambridge.
Have your read Niall Ferguson’s op-eds comparing Oxbridge to Harvard? He has a pretty low opinion of Harvard students: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/united-kingdom/2131394-oxbridge-admissions-criteria.html#latest
@Twoin18 I really appreciate the help. However, I have restricted my applications mainly to the US and not the UK due to geographical preferences - although I am aware that Oxbridge is very prestigious in the UK and both are outstanding colleges, I am applying only to the US
were you invited to take part in the Olympiad? if you were invited and got through to Round 2 that would be something.
Completing the Kumon math program (imo) is effectively an EC like mountain climbing: to each their own. It’s more productive than having the highest score on a video game- but still another student who locks themselves in their room to check levels of skill off somebody else’s chart.
Volunteering for the Red Cross is a Good Thing: but if you are doing it to tick the ‘volunteer’ box- re-think that. Re-read the MIT post @skieurope linked to in post #13.
@collegemom3717 All higher Math students in my school are invited to take the UKMT. Also linking back to Kumon - would it put off the AOs because it’s too ‘studious’?