As a parent, am I doing too much?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>Hi All-- </p>

<p>This is my first CC post, but I have been "lurking" for months-- The information here is invaluable. Thank you!</p>

<p>OK-- A little background-- Oldest Son is a high school junior at a college prep school. It's a small school, but it's got a strong Fine Arts/Theater program, of which S has been heavily involved in since 6th grade. He's gotten many lead roles in the musicals produced there and in the community. He's also been singing in the school choir for years, has a vocal coach, and has a very strong bass/baritone voice. He always gets selected for honors choirs locally and regionally, and we're really going to ramp-up his participation in more singing competitions this year, with the help of his vocal coach. He has no dance experience, other than choreography in various shows he's been in, but he just started weekly ballet lessons, because we know that he needs to show <em>some</em> dance competency at MT auditions next year.</p>

<p>This past school year, S had several friends that were seniors and were pursuing careers either in Opera or MT. It was quite the eye-opener to see the exhausted parents in January and February as they told us their stories about going to auditions every weekend, flying or driving here or there. It was our first taste of what might be coming up for our S. We also learned some good lessons about getting burned-- 1 very talented girl only auditioned at top-tier MT schools and got in at none of them. (She is now in a 2-yr program. I always wonder if she and her parents would have done things differently if they had seen this CC board! ie....always have a safety school!) On the flip-side, the friend doing Opera (a boy) had schools fighting over him.....he's now at a top-tier conservatory.</p>

<p>OK, so I'm to the crux of my "problem"-- </p>

<p>S is very interested in pursuing a career in <em>at least</em> voice. My husband and I share the philosophy-- let's go down the MT track because it's so much broader than just voice. Why limit yourself right from the start? Like I said-- S is now taking ballet, and even though he just started it, he likes it. We also have had several Skype meetings with folks at MTCA, and they seem great so far-- They're being very realistic about the MT programs S can potentially get into because of his not-so-stellar grades.</p>

<p>Also, at this point, S is not driven/passionate. When we ask him if MT/voice is what he'd like to pursue in college and beyond, he says yes. But, Hubby and I are the ones looking into the different schools/programs, finding local classes/coaches, not S. I'm afraid that we're too much of a crutch and that he needs to stand on his own, but on the flip-side, if we stand back, he won't do anything....or eventually does them, but after getting nagged. It's very frustrating. I also don't want to feel like we're pushing him into something he ultimately might not like, or fail at.... It's a hard, cruel MT world out there!</p>

<p>Thoughts? Like the title to my post says-- As a parent, am I doing too much? Are other parents in my shoes? (or have been?)</p>

2

<p>Your post really hits home. I, too, have a son with not-so-stellar grades but with much theater experience and a good voice. His voice teacher wants him to pursue vocal performance, and his director wants him to study acting. I encourage him to consider musical theater, but he prefers edgier drama. I’m doing all the research, and he listens, but he’s shown no inclination to do any research on his own.</p>

3

<p>You may want to read, “Crazy U” by Andrew Ferguson, which describes in a humorous fashion his zany experience trying to get his son into several top colleges. His experience trying to motivate his offspring to “get with the program” and participate in the college search mirrors what you describe. It is also full of interesting information about the whole college admissions process. Another book along similar lines is, “Accept My Kid, Please!: A Dad’s Descent into College Application Hell” by Hank Herman. I liked that one, too. Another book with a motivated parent and a reluctant kid. Herman’s description of his son’s interview at Penn is hilarious. While these are not MT-related books, many of the steps in the process are very relevant to the MT admissions process.</p>

<p>Perhaps you could get your son to read, “I Got In” by Mary Anna Dennard. That might help motivate him.</p>

<p>One thing you have going in your favor - bass/baritones are always in demand for MT programs.</p>

4

<p>@SU88BFA. My initial reaction to your post was, ‘its his junior year, you have plenty of time’ As a Dad of twin sons who are currently freshman in MT programs, my guys were certainly passionate about MT as Juniors but passionate is not a word that I would use about researching colleges and programs. We toured a few of the top MT schools during junior year (at my urging) and ramped up the college list/search in June before Senior year. In my limited sample size, its tough to get kids too excited about college programs as Juniors. They are focused on their music groups, theatre, friends, etc. The teenage minds that I’m familiar with don’t look that far ahead. It sounds like your son is doing the important foundational things like voice training, dance class, and participating in productions. In June after the twins Junior year we hired an MT audition coach to add to the voice coach and put the list of 10 schools together. </p>

<p>I would say that it will be difficult to succeed in college MT auditions without the passion for it. Although the percentages are slightly better for boys who audition for these programs, the acceptance rates are still very low. One S also auditioned for voice programs (in addition to MT), but there is a whole philosophy on that which is set out on other threads which if you have not read, I urge you to do so.
Best of luck!!!</p>

5

<p>It is entirely appropriate and probably more than a little bit seductive for a parent to start to nudge their high school junior to think about what happens after high school and to initiate the research. From what I saw with my daughter’s peer group (they are now college freshman), the nudging, particularly in the case of sons doesn’t stop until they are out the door. My son, also a high school junior, doesn’t know what he will study either but he is at least aware of the impact his grades will have on his future options so he is determined to do well. He is not pursuing MT however so in his case, a great liberal arts school may be just the ticket. </p>

<p>You can certainly sit back and wait for your son to take the reins and drive the college process himself. Odds are he won’t though or at least not in a timeframe that will make life easier for him. Odds also are that you won’t be able sit on your hands waiting especially as you watch other kids be helped out greatly by their parents so you might as well get over the “am I doing too much now” because yes you are, but you probably can’t help it and you’ll be in good company with other MT parents, botany parents, engineering parents, undeclared liberal-arts parents and so on. </p>

<p>My MT daughter had good grades, was well organized, knew what she wanted to study and she was capable of doing the preliminary research herself. She was also very busy at the start of junior year just getting through school and her various activities. I helped her out by doing some of the initial MT program research which was very interesting to me since I knew nothing about studying MT in college. </p>

<p>Towards the end of junior year and certainly the summer before senior year, she spent an increasing amount of time poking around on her own. It becomes what the peer crowd starts to do around that timeframe so it is a little hard for the kids to avoid it entirely though plenty of kids will drive their parents nuts pretending that they aren’t even looking nor listening to anything you tell them on the subject. Chances are though that they are looking and they are listening. Just be sure it isn’t the only thing you talk about. It’s easy to get stuck on the subject and they’ll be getting enough of that at school.</p>

<p>When things got really rolling after junior year I helped her keep track of the requirements and deadlines, and kept track of the master audition schedule. Clearly it was her job to fill out the applications, write the essays, prep and do the auditions, interviews etc. but I did the grunt work of keeping things organized. I don’t feel at all like I’ve launched her to college unable to do this herself. She can. Though certainly a work in progress, I believe my son will get there (eventually) and meanwhile I have every intention of offering to help him like I helped my daughter if he wants me to. I’m sort of starting to think about schools for him (can’t resist) but nothing too serious yet since he just started junior year and half of high school is still in front of him.</p>

<p>You’re in good company.</p>

6

<p>emsdad: It’s nice to hear that bass/baritones are in demand. I didn’t know if that would help or hurt my son.</p>

7

<p>Here is what the Juniors are doing at my d’s high school:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Finalizing their college lists. Our school uses Naviance, so the counselor is making them move colleges from their Preliminary List to their Final Application list - they have to start building their preliminary list their Freshman year. The counselors can log in and see their lists online and bug them about it.</p></li>
<li><p>Practicing college Essay writing.</p></li>
<li><p>Finalizing their rep books with at least 10 songs and 10 monologues from various genres and styles.</p></li>
<li><p>Preparing for mock auditions in January.</p></li>
<li><p>Taking SAT classes and mock SAT tests in the Fall and then SAT tests in the Spring (some take the test in Dec., the rest in March).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Our school really emphasizes from day one that only the committed and passionate are going to make it (the theatre department motto is, “talent only gets work when talent works hard”) and that each student needs to be fully accountable for managing their education and training. However, they hold multiple parent meetings throughout the year and list in detail what needs to occur and when it needs to occur in order to be ready for the college admissions process. They recommend parents log in to Naviance to monitor progress and make suggestions at a minimum, more if students are struggling with the process.</p>

8

<p>I’ll bet college seems a lifetime away to your son. Have you visited any of the prospective campuses? Walking the campus, sitting in on a class, seeing a show, having a meal in the dining hall with current students can often get a kid (MT or not) thinking about the next chapter…and how to get to to this cool place that is college. </p>

<p>Senior year/auditions-applications is exhausting…but also a very magical year. It is a process that seems to run well with some “divide and conquer” – my d (college sophomore now) worked on the list, on her apps and rehearsals and dance classes and resumes and essays and (and still needed to do her “regular” schoolwork…she attended a traditional h.s.)… and I was the logistics coordinator – keeper of the calendar, maker of hotel and flight reservations, checker of the dance bag to make sure all types of shoes were present, reconfirming whether school A wanted 16 or 32-bar cuts, resume sent or brought, etc. (Then we touched base to be sure we read all those details correctly.) She also depended on her fantastic voice teacher for great advice and support.</p>

<p>Before starting down that crazy-making path, we did sit down and make a list of what needed done, who was in charge of it (like I said, just call me the Travel Agent) and when it needed done. Deadlines for apps and scholarship competitions and auditions were all marked on the calendar that took over a wall in our kitchen. That became the “nag” – we could all see the calendar…and making deadlines was up to each person who’d “signed on” for it. </p>

<p>Good for you for thinking about your (and your son’s) role in this adventure to come. We look at the bigger picture…the kids tend to see next week (if we’re lucky). But do throw a walk on a college campus as a chance to “try on” that future, no harm, no foul. (My d told me she was auditioning the campuses before they got a change to audition her!)</p>

9

<p>Rest assured, many of us have EXACTLY the same story.</p>

<p>I always wondered if I was doing too much. (3 a.m. sessions going through college catalogs with a fine-toothed comb to see if the program was academically challenging as well as artistically worth our $). And it didn’t help that other people were also questioning whether I was doing too much. I work for a high school counselor, and she did no end of eye-rolling at me when I explained how complicated the MT process was…she said she never even go involved at ALL in her kid’s process and gave me the whole “helicopter mom” speech (and there are some threads right here on this forum where hands-off parents have said the same thing, but I think they are the rare exception.) </p>

<p>My son was an intelligent kid who probably COULD have done all of this on his own, but he didn’t even know where to start! I don’t think he was unmotivated, but good golly… just take a look at the thousands of threads on this forum discussing the details of the process. It is complicated enough for an adult with a degree in management to navigate. How can we expect a kid to do it on their own? It could be that your son feels “frozen” because it’s all so overwhelming or he has no idea all of the things that are involved. He sees his friends fill out an application and walk away…what’s the big deal?</p>

<p>So this was our balance: I was more than happy to blaze the trail (make travel arrangements, start spread sheets, do endless hours of research) but I wanted to make sure that HE cared enough to do the tasks (choose songs & select cuts, call schools for appointments, type his resume). That was our balance…I will make the “outline” and you “fill in the blanks.” </p>

<p>I also worried about whether he felt “pushed” into this major. When a kid expresses an interest and a parent takes the ball and runs with it - we want to get them whatever they want, right,?! and we believe in their talent. Not to mention that the kid realizes the expense of the process, the years of training, etc. It can make him hesitant to speak up and say something like “I really love theatre, but I think I would be happier as an accountant.” So I asked him several times along the way if he was still certain he wanted this for a career - if not, no harm no foul.</p>

<p>My son is now a junior in MT - and he sounded so much like your son when he was that age. Since he got to school, he has not needed me to navigate ANYTHING for him. Don’t worry that what you do now will cripple him later or that just because he isn’t losing sleep over auditions means that he doen’t care. They are young and this major more than any other that I have known needs the involvement and guidance of a parent…rock on!</p>

<p>p.s. I agree with mommafrog…get him to a campus visit ASAP…that was wonderful motivation (even for my current senior who is NOT an MT major - once she saw what she was working for, SHE started “driving the bus”…you know, the one I had been sitting in and honking the horn for the last 11 years!! LOL)</p>

10

<p>Oh, and one more thing…there are lots of parents who “testify” that this process and especially the campus visit/audition trips made them feel especially close to their kids, and that was true for us as well. But I must confess, there were many, many frustrating times that I wasn’t…um…feeling the Hallmark moment. Just keep swimming!</p>

11

<p>Do remember that getting in is just the beginning-- most college kids have a few classes per day and an immense amount of unscheduled time. (Focused on homework, no doubt!) BFA kids tend to be in class or rehearsal all day, every day, including weekends. If you don’t love it enough to be doing it every minute, then you’re in over your head. D has been at school for 2 weeks and already one young man is leaving and another is seriously considering it. These are kids who did well in auditions and had several good acceptances…they like being on stage and they’re good at it. Hours of voice and movement classes, big backstage responsibilities, long papers-- not so much. </p>

<p>All this will be evolving for your son over the next two years, and he will develop his own sense of things more–it really is early in the process. A friend of D’s who had a couple of auditioned acceptances made a last minute decision to major in science instead. And another who was really at sea at the beginning of Jr. year kind of came into her own and became very focused, doing her own research and charting a great path.</p>

<p>Which is to say-- it’s all so complex that I’d definitely do a lot of research, but be sure he’s part of the process all the way along, and that all doors are open until the last minute. They’re evolving so fast at this age!</p>

12

<p>I think as a parent you can help your child with college applications, etc, but if it comes down to making them be passionate about pursuing MT, or any college major, the answer to me is that parents should not be the ones pushing that. To the OP’s point, if your son is truly passionate about going to college for MT then he’ll show interest ins electing colleges, application process, etc. If he doesn’t have the passion he won’t and forcing it won’t be productive.</p>

13

<p>We are all trying to walk that line between support and taking over. Don’t let anyone tell you how to find that balance because it is so unique to each student, parent, and household. And there is no right way to operate even within your home. </p>

<p>I have an older daughter who is a Senior at college with a major in International Relations. She was extremely studious and motivated about schoolwork and testing, but had resistance to even discussing college let alone driving the process. She appreciated my guidance and research, and I tried to get as much input from her as I could, but she barely shared voluntarily. Visiting schools helped, as she usually had very strong opinions once there. Gut reactions that rarely had to do with academics. I will say she/we found a terrific fit and she is much better now at looking at “next steps” on her own. But she also never turned away my input and research on things like internships or study abroad programs.</p>

<p>My D who is a Senior in high school is very excited about going to college and although she is not yet looking forward to auditions, she has been very good about becoming prepared from the performance standpoint. Decisions about song selection and monologues are up to her (with help from MTCA coaches). Clearly the applications and essays will be her own. But did I have a huge part in putting together the school list? Absolutely! Does she maintain the spreadsheet? Not at all. But this process is extremely detailed and confusing. Could she do it on her own? Maybe, but not so thoroughly. We discuss why schools make it or not onto the list and it’s working for us. We did a couple of visits but decided not to do any more until auditions and acceptances.</p>

<p>There is no doubt that my D has a passion for MT. She does not have a passion for researching the programs. That does not mean she will not be motivated within an MT program. Also, remember that many college students change majors several times over. Although it is surely way less common in MT, it can happen and that’s OK. It is not a failure. I want my D to be happy, and hope she will be able to be independent. I believe a college education is important and if majoring in MT gets her excited to go to college, but her head turns in another direction once there, so be it. </p>

<p>I worry I do too much too, but I need to survive the year as much as my daughter does, and if making spreadsheets helps me to sleep through the night, so be it.</p>

14

<p>Thanks, everyone for your insight and answers to my complex question! Obviously, I need to do what’s right for my S, and family as a whole. It sounds like we are generally on the right path, and at least have a reasonable idea about what is ahead of us in the next 18 months.</p>

<p>Ironically, during dinner tonight, S says to me something like “Mom, you’re going crazy with all of the college planning!” I chuckled to myself, because I had just posted this thread! Hubby and I explained to him that his college application process is going to be totally different than 98% of his friends, and that the guidance counselors at school will be of little to no help to us. (We could probably tell them a thing or two when this is all over, so the next MT interested kid won’t be so in the dark.) So, it was up to us (parents) to take care of the details, and for him to concentrate on his schoolwork and MT-related activities. He felt quite contrite, and thanked us at the end of the conversation…LOL</p>

<p>Doing a few college visits is probably a good idea this year. There is a non-audition state university within walking distance of our house that has a BA program in fine and performing arts with a major in theater, a minor in theater as well as a minor in dance. I wouldn’t want S to do to school down the street, but it might be a good idea to see if he could sit in a couple of classes. We’re hoping to be in NYC in the winter to sit in on some mock auditions. THAT will be the eye-opener for S, I think. He’ll see the talent out there, and get a taste of what to expect at an audition.</p>

<p>Glad to hear that being a bass/baritone is to his advantage. Ellen at MTCA told him the same thing. Something in our favor-- yes!</p>

<p>Thx all!!</p>

15

<p>One Son in engineering. One Daughter in MT. My son’s path to engineering was so easy. One school, ED, that was it. For the daughter it was a whole 'nuther matter. She was so busy her last years of high school, she didn’t have any of the time needed to research everything. As many of you know, I researched everything I could and am still finding out that I didn’t know nearly enough. Forget the village; it takes a city.</p>

16

<p>Wish there was a "Like’ button for all of these posts!</p>

17

<p>I have a senior, who is now okay with his pursuit of theatre (he is acting, not MT). In his junior year, we also had a tough time finding out from him if he was going to go the BFA route, and each time we asked, he’d get defensive and snap at us. I was panicking a bit because I knew we should be visiting college theatre programs, etc. Eventually we found out that when he would say he was thinking of going to school for theatre, he found NO support from a number of his friends and teachers! This included his old girlfriend’s mother who would quote statistics to him about how no one makes a living in the theatre. </p>

<p>We used a summer program in theatre to help him decide - meaning if he didn’t enjoy “breathing” theatre 24/7 in a college environment, then maybe he should look at other options.</p>

<p>Not only is he 110% sure theatre is what he wants now, he says it proudly and with so much passion, that no one says anything negative to him any more! </p>

<p>Maybe your son is feeling like this?</p>

18

<p>Okay, this may be a bit of a bird walk, but . . . the other day I was talking to our school psychologist, Lynne, and she was talking about her sophomore college daughter’s lack of planning/interest/involvement in getting ready to move in to her very first apartment. Then Lynne (my go-to gal regarding child development) said: “I reminded myself that my very together, responsible, 19-year-old daughter’s brain is not done developing and I better see if I can help her get organized.” </p>

<p>Her statement gave me an “aha moment” because I was just that day dealing with frustration about my D not following through on something important yet easily dealt with. Even though I know the research, I still find myself being surprised that my very with-it daughter can often shock me with her lack of forethought, planning and sense of urgency about things. </p>

<p>Here is a great quote from an online article from Harvard Magazine “The Teen Brain ~ A Work in Progress”. Link to follow.</p>

<p>“The last section to connect is the frontal lobe, responsible for cognitive processes such as reasoning, planning, and judgment. Normally this mental merger is not completed until somewhere between ages 25 and 30—much later than these two neurologists were taught in medical school.”</p>

<p>[The</a> Teen Brain | Harvard Magazine Sep-Oct 2008](<a href=“http://harvardmagazine.com/2008/09/the-teen-brain.html]The”>http://harvardmagazine.com/2008/09/the-teen-brain.html)</p>

<p>I’m not saying we need to raise our kids until they are 30 - haha!, it’s just an interesting way to look at things . . . they may need more help than we think they should.</p>

19

<p>As a “kid” (I’m twenty), I would just like to take a moment to point my finger at fate and laugh mirthlessly. My parents and I made a conscious decision for me to stay back and apply as a transfer student instead of take SATs when I was seventeen. Before I announced that I wanted to pursue a career in musical theater and go to college for it, my parents were into looking at colleges, talking with other parents about colleges, comparing notes on their kids and fretting about how I wasn’t “with the program” or “concerned about my own future”.</p>

<p>Now that I know what I want to do and I’m spinning my wheels on double time trying to get accepted into universities, my dad will wire money to me and says he’ll fly me out to the East Coast for auditions, if need be, but both of them are suddenly entirely discontinued and unconcerned with the application/audition process. I excitedly read a list of colleges with BFA MT programs and they were like, “great…what does that mean?”. My dad at least believes that I have talent enough to “make it”, but my mom still thinks that my Acting, Music and Dance classes at my community college are “just for fun” or even worse, “a waste of time” – not really caring about anything but the ONE academic class I have before I graduate.</p>

<p>Now, this could be my dad’s way of teaching me to function as an adult in the cruel world of professional theater, but my mom would worries about things when she’s more concerned. I miss getting the hands-on and emotional support I used to get for college applications. Although, I cannot possibly begin to put into words how grateful I am for the financial support.</p>

<p>I hear it’s a common tale, when kids leave for college and then come home suddenly become grateful for all the work their parents did for them. When I was 17/18, I hated feeling “smothered” by my parents and complained that my mom was “obsessed” with the idea of me going to college and nothing else ever since I was twelve, but now that they’ve stopped, (and we no longer live together) I really, really miss the extra help.</p>

<p>So, the point of this novel: I think you guys sound like great, supportive parents and if your kids aren’t seeming ‘motivated’ or “with the program”, but still know what they want, try backing off for awhile. They might just come sprinting back once they realize what they’re missing.</p>

20

<p>To the question - it is a difficult process and I don’t think you are doing too much. The caution here is MT is a difficult field - so the S or D has to really want it in order to stay the course amongst the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune. Good fortune on your journey.</p>