<p>(by top universities, I mean those with high publicity like: U of Chicago, Yale, Duke)</p>
<p>Hi guys!</p>
<p>I'm an international student and whenever USA college fairs come to my country, Middlebury NEVER sets up a booth, so I'm pretty clueless about the culture, etc.</p>
<p>Collegeboard.com says on 20% are admitted, so... would this mean Middlebury is as competitive as the more high profile universities?</p>
<p>If anyone can say something about the culture of Middlebury, that would be great too!</p>
<p>Be certain not to confuse acceptance rate with “difficult to get into”. Many of the top liberal arts colleges simply don’t get the number of applicants that large universities get, however, the quality of applicants is often a good deal higher as a result of self selection. </p>
<p>Having said that, schools that, according to US News, are in the same range of acceptance rate include Dartmouth, Brown, the US Naval Academy, Amherst, Pomona, the US Military Academy, Swarthmore, the University of Pennsylvania, Williams, CalTech, Bowdoin, Georgetown and Cornell. It’s acceptance rate is significantly lower than Duke and the University of Chicago. </p>
<p>I cannot find the Princeton Review’s selectivity rankings, but Midd is usually among the top 20, but not among the top 15.</p>
Actually, Duke’s was (significantly) lower last year, and Chicago’s will almost certainly be significantly lower this year.</p>
<p>That being said, you’re quite right. Acceptance rate is not the same as selectivity, which is why it isn’t a large factor in the US News rankings, for instance. SAT scores are a much better way of measuring the selectivity of a college, although this measure isn’t perfect either. Middlebury’s SATs are slightly lower than the very top colleges, but not by a significant margin.</p>
<p>Among those schools listed I would say it’s probably mildly harder to get into Dartmouth, Amherst, UPenn, Williams, and CalTech (and possibly Brown). The schools with approximately equal selectivity probably include Pomona, Bowdoin, and Duke. The remaining schools are probably only SLIGHTLY easier to get into - the Service Academies, Georgetown, Cornell, and Chicago. I’d happily admit to mistakenly placing any of those schools one category away from the “correct” group, but I think it’s unlikely that any are two groups away. (in other words, it’s possible one of the “easier” schools should be considered in the “same” group as Middlebury, but it’s unlikely they should be in the “harder” group).</p>
<p>Among those schools listed I would say it’s probably mildly harder to get into Dartmouth, Amherst, UPenn, Williams, and CalTech (and possibly Brown). The schools with approximately equal selectivity probably include Pomona, Bowdoin, and Duke. The remaining schools are probably only SLIGHTLY easier to get into - the Service Academies, Georgetown, Cornell, and Chicago. I’d happily admit to mistakenly placing any of those schools one category away from the “correct” group, but I think it’s unlikely that any are two groups away. (in other words, it’s possible one of the “easier” schools should be considered in the “same” group as Middlebury, but it’s unlikely they should be in the “harder” group).</p>
<p>Another twist on admissions difficulty is that Middlebury is one of a growing number of top schools that may have significantly different admissions standards for men and women. This is because Midd wants balanced enrollment, but gets about 50% more female applicants than male applicants (the exact difference is 49.3%, according to the 2009-2010 Common Data Set). </p>
<p>So compared to some peer institutions, Midd may be harder to get into if you are female, but simultaneously easier to get into if you are male. Compare, for example, the current acceptance rates for men and women at Midd and Williams (again with 2009-2010 CDS numbers):</p>
<p>24.7 % men at Middlebury
21.2 % men at Williams</p>
<p>19.8 % women at Williams
17.6 % women at Middlebury </p>
<p>Based purely on acceptance rate (which admittedly is not the whole story), Williams is the more selective school for a male applicant, but Middlebury is the more selective school for a female applicant.</p>
<p>I think you can look at statistics all you want, but S seemed to get in to the smaller LAC’s over the larger Universities which may have been slightly less selective based purely on admit rates, but I honestly think that’s because he was better suited to the LAC than either Johns Hopkins or Georgetown (neither of whom accepted him) and that was pretty clear not only by his own remarks but probably fit with his recommendations as well. So for those schools that are more holistic in their approach I think they adcoms are looking at fit just as much as the numbers because Son’s were either right in there or exceeded the 50% in terms of pure numbers (test scores).</p>
<p>Yeah, I think that’s a good point. When you’re looking at the top schools, there often seem to be little rhyme or reason to who gets admitted. I know of plenty of people who got accepted at their dream (reach) school and rejected by their safeties. At this level it’s really a crapshoot.</p>
<p>Also, with such small student enrollments, the 3 percentage points is a very small number of actual students accepted at Midd vs Williams-approximately 1400 at Midd and 1350 at Williams- to fill the classes of 620 and 490 respectively.
A place like Duke will accept over 4000 students to get their class of 1800ish- so luck is a bigger factor at the smaller school, even if you have the stats.
Gentlemen, there is your academic crap shoot…I suggest applying early and often!</p>
<p>My daughter, who now is a senior at Midd, probably got in because she was able to present herself personally i.e. meet the head of the dapartment she was most interested in, take some classes in this dept., send in a video of her work, and interview both on campus and with an alumni. The other top schools she applied to–Brown in particular–didn’t even take her name when we visited and her alumni interview seemed inconsequential.</p>
<p>Scoring is not the criteria by which admissions departments choose students. They build classes from which the school attempts to profit from, culturally, academically and their personal investment in their respective competitive environments. </p>
<p>As internationals, you need to apply to a number of US schools. The number of qualified internationals are quite high and the quotas for admissions are low. You will be competing with your own international applicants for consideration.</p>
<p>Thanks so much, all! I have almost decided NOT to apply to Midd because of their needs-blind financial aid. On paper, my family looks like we have many assets but in reality, we’re absolutely middle-class, so that’ll work against me if I got accepted and were trying to apply for fin aid.</p>
<p>Horseradish: In all my research, I must admit I’ve never seen a quota for admitting internationals :0! I thought most colleges celebrated diversity! Where can I find more info about this? </p>
<p>What I only know is that mostly, fin aid is limited for internationals.</p>
<p>I think you might be slightly underestimating our own national diversity because schools DO celebrate diversity - but that isn’t only represented in international students. Although I am not sure about quotas being surpassed (as they’re mostly strived for), usually schools are trying to increase diversity, not limit it. As for financial aid, this is the tricky part. Assets are pretty much assets in anyone’s book and I really have no idea how they calculate that internationally since you don’t have a US tax return. Still… whether it’s Midd or another school entirely, I think the financial aid process is pretty much the same. And while asking for financial aid as an international student isn’t going to keep you from getting accepted per say, it’s not doing you favors either. MOST schools are need aware for internationals.</p>
<p>Middlebury used to be need-blind for internationals as well until the recent economic downturn which led Middlebury to change their policy. Other colleges such as Williams, Harvard, Dartmouth, etc are still need-blind for internationals.</p>
<p>Middlebury also has a high percentage of international students at around 11%, which I think is great :)</p>