<p>05<em>01</em>04</p>
<p>Vtran : "I wouldn't do that because I don't want to lie my way into college. I don't thing just being a URM makes u bear some extra burdens."</p>
<p>Please explain how URMs are lying their way into college.</p>
<p>I was responding to ttheDad's "acid test" that I should say I am a URM when I am not (he said this kinda sarcasitcally) to help in college admissions. THat would be a LIE. good point though chrisscare + thanx 4 watchin my back :-P</p>
<p>Haven't we beaten the dead horse enough? Oh Mr. Ed, they've killed you. I'll give you a proper burial.</p>
<p>Vtran, if you think I was suggesting you lie about being a URM, you misread on yet another facet. See also, the notion of a thought experiment. Einstein was good at them but they're useful for other fields than physics.</p>
<p>KK, the canonical phrase is, "flog an expired equine."</p>
<p>Your point is? Stop it with your pretensions. What is your point in saying the "canconical phrase is, 'flog an expired equine'"? To show how knowledgeable you are? To enlighten me? Oh boy, I've been so enlightened. Don't correct me unless it's warranted. Besides, beating a dead horse is far more effective than your pompous way of saying it, "flog an expired equine." Find 5/10 Americans who understand your phrasing than I'll listen to you. Plus, aren't you a little to old for these forums anyway?</p>
<p>KK, I was making a joke. As you yourself had with the Mr. Ed reference. Sorry if you're humor impaired.</p>
<p>And, no, I'm not too old for these forums.</p>
<p>This is probably a good point to remind posters that College Confidential is maintained as a resource for both students and parents. </p>
<p>In addition, parents provide a disproportional amount of the knowledge, experience, and good advice on these forums, which are designed to be an inclusive community.</p>
<p>College Confidential has actively encouraged some parents, including TheDad, to participate on this board, even after their own children have been admitted to college.</p>
<p>We now return you to your previously scheduled endless discussion.</p>
<p>--Moderator Obiwan</p>
<p>what exactly did u mean then? I don't understnad your acid test at all then?</p>
<p>and where exactly else have I misread?</p>
<p>I heard asians are overepresented, so it's harder for them to be accepted into some colleges.</p>
<p>Asians are overrepresented in the Ivies and other high standing academic institutions across the country, but at other schools especially in the south and midwest their numbers are scanty.</p>
<p>Asians are overrepresented in the Ivies and other high standing academic institutions across the country, but at other schools especially in the south and midwest their numbers are scanty.</p>
<p>Vicks,</p>
<p>You are absolutely right. The whole sad thing about this thread (and others like it) concerning Asian Americans/ AA is only about admissions into approximately 20 colleges in this country (Ivies, Caltech, MIT, Stanford, JHU and the Elite LACs) . When you consider that there are over 3000 schools in this country most which would welcome Asians and URMs if thought to apply. </p>
<p>However, we can have these threads until the end of time but colleges are still looking to build a community and it takes all kinds of people to make that happen.</p>
<p>For example: Amherst which requires supplemental essays has a question which I thinks sums up the issue. (However, based on some of the skewed responses to this thread, some people would have no idea of how to answer the question)</p>
<p>For me, diversity is not a political slogan or a theoretical goal; it is an absolute necessity. It is impossible for students from any particular background to engage fully the racial and ethnic dimensions of American culture in a setting that does not approximate the racial composition of the society as a whole.</p>
<p>From an essay published February 26, 2003, in the Chicago Sun-Times by Frederick E. Hoxie, Amherst Class of 1969,
Amherst trustee, Swalund Professor of History, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign</p>
<p>Because people only beleive what they want to believe, the colleges have said in balck and white that there is a need for diversity in the admissions process, so maybe some need to hear it directly from the school (they may not still be happy) but it is what the colleges stand by.</p>
<p>In the Brief file at the Supreme Court, by Harvard University, Brown University, The University Of Chicago, Dartmouth College, Duke University, The University Of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, And Yale University As Amici Curiae Supporting Respondents</p>
<p>These schools collectively stated</p>
<p>Academically selective universities have a compelling interest in ensuring that their student bodies incorporate the experiences and talents of the wide spectrum of racial and ethnic groups that make up our society. Amici should be free to compose a class that brings together many different kinds of students; that includes robust representation of students from different races and ethnicities; and that prepares graduates to work successfully in a diverse nation. Indeed, highly selective universities have long defined as one of their central missions the training of the nations business, government, academic, and professional leaders. By creating a broadly diverse class, amicis admissions policies help to assure that their graduates are well prepared to succeed in an increasingly complex and multi-racial society.</p>
<p>The colleges presented the following arguments</p>
<p>I- Consideration Of Race And Ethnicity In An Individualized Admissions Process Serves Compelling Interests.</p>
<p>A. There Is a Broad Consensus On The Important Educational Benefits of Diversity.
Diversity helps students confront perspectives other than their own and thus to think more rigorously and imaginatively; it helps students learn to relate better to people
from different backgrounds; it helps students become better citizens. The educational benefits of student diversity include the discovery that there is a broad range of viewpoint and experience within any given minority community as well as learning that certain imagined differences at times turn out to be only skin deep. It is surely fitting for universities to undertake to prepare their students to live and work in a global economy within a multiracial world. The challenges of contemporary life demand that students acquire not just traditional forms of knowledge regarding science and the arts, but also techniques of bridging differences in perspective and in personal experience.</p>
<p>B. Consideration of Race and Ethnicity Grows Naturally Out Of The Needs Of The Professions and Of American Business.</p>
<p>Every major profession in this country has sought greater diversity within its ranks.4 Businesses have demanded more minority managers and executives, as well as non-minorities who can work well with colleagues from diverse backgrounds.
Leading corporations, business groups, professional organizations, and executives have repeatedly called for consideration of race and ethnicity in university admissions.5 In
adopting their admissions policies, universities are responding to the clearly articulated needs of business and the professions for a healthier mix of well-educated leaders and practitioners from varied racial and ethnic backgrounds.</p>
<p>The Interest In Racial Diversity Cannot Be Served By Race-Neutral Reliance On Factors, Such As Economic Disadvantage, That Are Already Carefully Considered.</p>
<p>The United States urges (as one solution) that universities look to such factors as special economic hardship instead of race. See U.S. Grutter Br. 24-25. But the decisive fact
is that all of the suggested race-neutral factors, and many more besides, already enter into admissions decisions. Consideration of those factors alone does not achieve the distinctly racial diversity that amici seek in their student bodies. To accomplish that goal, admissions committees must give favorable consideration to minority race in addition to those other factors, not instead of them.</p>
<p>By deliberately tilting individual admissions toward hardship students in the hope of thereby selecting a large enough increment of minority students to make up for the
losses that would result from race-blind admissions would be disingenuous at best. Such an approach would in truth be a race based policy and not a race-neutral alternative at all. Indeed, such programs, if adopted to assure increased minority enrollment, would be based on race in a causal sense and would thus raise obvious constitutional questions of their own.</p>
<p>A race-neutral preference for economically disadvantaged students, for example, would admit many more whites than non-whites, because of sheer demographic realities.14 And, of course, the university interest in admitting minority students goes well beyond just admitting minority students from disadvantaged backgrounds.</p>
<p>Race-Conscious Admissions Programs Are Not Open- Ended Commitments.</p>
<p>The decision of a university as to which minority groups deserve favorable consideration in an individualized admissions process designed to foster such diverse representation, and the weight of such consideration, are necessarily and appropriately decisions to be made as a matter of educational judgment, taking into account both the universitys sense of its mission and its best estimate of the leadership needs it will address not as a matter
of conflicting rights.</p>
<p>The colleges also state that they
are not so far removed from the days when segregation by race in education,
and race discrimination in all sorts of vital opportunities relevant to educational performance, were for many a matter of law.</p>
<p>I know a lot of people here are really smart...</p>
<p>For me, I checked "Others" on the race option.
Then for the specification next to "others",
I put "Homo Sapien".
Yeah, that's my race.</p>
<p>My ED and EA schools had no problem with that.... </p>
<p>[MODERATOR'S NOTE: This thread has been closed for a while. To see a current thread with factual information, visit </p>
<p>and read the first few posts for facts, and participate politely in the discussion if you have questions.]</p>