<p>
</p>
<p>Very true – but it has to be something that the student wants to do, rather than something that the parent forces the student to do.</p>
<p>Still national level skill, even in [things</a> that typical teenagers like to do](<a href=“http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/]things”>http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/), can be difficult.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s funny you say that. While Harvard’s math department is topflight among math folks, the same wasn’t the case among the hardcore engineering/CS folks I knew from HS or work. </p>
<p>To them, if one turned down admission to MIT, Berkeley, CMU, UIUC, UW-Seattle, UMich, etc in favor of Harvard back in the '90s…you were certifiable. Saw it firsthand when one HS classmate did just that with the first 3 schools on her list.</p>
<p>Geomom, I had both kinds of kids- the ones who derived enormous satisfaction out of working towards national level accomplishment, and the ones who decided they’d rather do their EC’s for pleasure and for the social satisfaction of being on a team with friends. My “kid on the couch” (long time posters know his story) would have spent his 20’s in therapy had we tried to mold him into something he was not (instead he worked in his chosen field, went to grad school, is back working in his chosen field at what he tells us weekly is his dream job). He is happy, motivated, doing what he loves, and feels like he got to spend his teenage years doing schoolwork, watching Simpson’s re-runs, and learning how to be an adult (laundry, cook a simple meal, use an ATM machine) before he left for college. He was not an easy child to push-- had his own mind and very respectfully did whatever the heck he wanted despite parental exhortations to the contrary. But he loved to learn (actual schoolwork not so much) and he walked his own “slacker/scholar” path in both HS and college.</p>
<p>My “scorch the earth” child would have been bored on the couch and spent both HS and college in a whirl of activity and achievement, all self-generated (and public transportation-enabled- both parents working full time and unable to chauffeur at 4 pm).</p>
<p>And then kids in the middle- encourage, make options available, yes. But to tell a kid that mastery is the goal is in my opinion a mistake. My kids didn’t always dream big, sometimes they were tiny compared to the kids out there curing cancer. But as parents our goal was to encourage THEIR dreams, not to tell them that nothing short of mastery was an acceptable outcome.</p>
<p>Could any of my kids have become accomplished athletes? I have no idea. I don’t know any kids competing at a high level who don’t have a parent who has given over his or her life to the sport or to travel, training, etc. We couldn’t afford that option. So I have no idea how we would have supported a kid’s aspirations if they required forfeiting a paycheck to mold that talent. And I know people who have quit their jobs to home school a math prodigy or a ballerina. They are fine parents- I admire them.</p>
<p>But kids can also end up in a terrific college with phenomenal educational opportunities with parents who have jobs and can’t spend the four years of HS as chauffeurs and personal trainers. And Lisa Simpson is not a bad mentor.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>National recognition is always nice, but I don’t think it’s necessary. The point is that handing out sandwiches does not seem entrepeneurial in the sense that you are not creating any program or project. What I am suggesting in #40 would improve an application and is not terribly hard to do. It is a finishing touch that you might do junior year or during the summer to make your app look more compelling, to show that you have initiative and organizational skills. </p>
<p>As for pushing your kid to do Siemens, I definitely would not do that. Pushing your kid to do ECs can backfire in all sorts of ways. </p>
<p>Don’t put the cart before the horse. I wouldn’t even mention this stuff to him until like junior year or, at the earliest, the summer before junior year. Up until then, his job is to be an outstanding student and to explore his interests in ECs, to do stuff that he would want to participate in regardless of the admissions decisions. </p>
<p>By the way, there are some people who get into HYP who are active in a lot of activities but don’t achieve a lot of recognition in anything.</p>
<p>Kudos to blossom for post 54:
And to pizzagirl for post 56:
</p>
<p>Good advice that applies not just to the OP, but really to all parents of smart, talented, college-intending kids.</p>
<p>blossom,</p>
<p>“he worked in his chosen field, went to grad school, is back working in his chosen field at what he tells us weekly is his dream job”</p>
<p>Sounds like mastery to me.</p>
<p>Not mastery at all. He is not on track for a Nobel prize, was not Rhodes or Fulbright material, and has never been “national recognition” for anything.</p>
<p>But got a phenomenal education, discovered what he loves in college, and is now doing it as an adult without looking over his shoulder to see who is achieving better, more, or racking up more gold rings.</p>
<p>I know adults who can never just enjoy their journey- there’s always a prize just beyond their grasp. I’m assuming that begins in HS.</p>
<p>I think we are just using the term mastery differently. Mastery doesn’t depend on prizes or recognition, but often fortuitously results in those things. There’s nothing wrong with looking around and learning about what people consider to be good or excellent work. We can all learn a lot from each other.</p>
<p>I let my very motivated self directed older son drop out of the science research program. He wasn’t enjoying it. I bit my nails all junior and senior year wondering if what he did would be considered the equivalent of getting that Siemens prize, but he was a kid who would not be pushed, even though he spent most of his life pulling me to get him better accommodations in school - only for things he liked though!</p>
<p>My younger kid was a bit of a slacker who woke up senior year just in time to get in by figuring out how to sell what he had been doing in a way that showed his potential and charm even though the accomplishments were pretty modest. He did way, way better with admissions than any of us (including him) expected.</p>
<p>I think it’s okay to nudge or tell your kids about possibilities they may not know about - but it’s also important to back off when you get negative signals.</p>
<p>Wow, when you ask for advice you really get it don’t you!! In any case, I hear you all, I will (try to) not be THAT mom, the tiger mom who tries to force her kids at all costs to attend Harvard, especially at the cost of her kids’ emotional health!</p>
<p>I have my own personal experience with tiger mothering - my mom… I think it worked out OK for me, but perhaps not so well for my sister. After flunking out of one of the Ivies, multiple years trying to go back and finish without success, and who knows how much wasted money on tuition, sis ended up finally finishing a bachelor’s at a local school. I was talking to my sister about next steps when she was finishing and my mom yelled at me because I had the gall to suggest PA school… how could I possibly tell her to apply to a PA school? It had to be med school!!! So of course she applied, didn’t get in. She has never held a paying job as a college grad. Fortunately, she is now happily married and will probably never work again, but I think she had pretty significant emotional problems related to this ordeal. Clearly, you cannot make your children something they are not.</p>
<p>That being said, I have multiple things to credit my mom for… taking me to the library every week, where I would max out the library card (I think it was twelve books per week- one of the joys of my life); sacrificing to send me to EXCELLENT schools including a Harvard feeder school (public); pointing me to resources and opportunities that I would not have known to look for on my own (i.e. eye-opening summer programs, community service program which still influence my outlook on life), etc.</p>
<p>Plus, whenever she would push me in a way that I didn’t want, I would push back pretty hard. </p>
<p>Hopefully I can provide the guidance and opportunities to my son that were given to me without going overboard and crushing him.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all your suggestions and looking back at the posts, there is some excellent advice. I think all my questions were answered!!!</p>
<p>(p.s. - yes, UM is UMich. It is an excellent school for us and won’t close any doors to grad school or jobs as long as he does well.)</p>
<p>You sound like a thoughtful, caring mother. And you’re right -Michigan is an excellent school. Best of luck and stick around! CC parents are a great resource.</p>
<p>“From what I am seeing in terms of elite admissions, in order for an EC to get noticed, it needs to be nationally recognized”</p>
<p>Sorry, I haven’t read all of the posts. D and other friends got into HYPS schools without nationally recognized ECs (except NMSF and AP scholar with distinction, but others got in without even those). D also did not have any leadership (except directing films, not sure if that counts). Just showed a strong interest in the arts: theater, film, dance, creative writing. No national or state awards. No, nothing published or shown commercially. Just doing it for the fun of doing it.</p>
<p>I’m an Asian male, and my son made it into Harvard.</p>
<p>Harvard wants a well rounded student body. That does not imply they want well rounded students. Find something your son has a passion for, and have him be the best at it. Having oval (not round) students helps other students grow in their appreciation of other people’s unique talents. Can’t do that if everyone is the same.</p>
<p>My handles is OperaDad. My son’s talent was being an exceptional classical singer (along with the good grades, yadda, yadda, yadda).</p>