<p>abstractstatic, guess what? She IS black, and she went to Harvard. Racism? I don't think so.</p>
<p>You guys don't know enough about Jian Li to judge his arrogance or his reasons for filing the official complaint against Princeton. He graduated from my school last year, and I have been friends with him since middle school. He was #3 (or #4, don't remember) in his class, got a 2400 on his SAT's, had a great deal of awards and recognitions, and also a lot of extracurricular activities. I believe the person Jian was referring to was the person ranked #5 in our class. She is white, and she got into Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, Cornell, etc. in regular decision. She had lower stats than Jian, but she got into all the schools that Jian failed to get into. Also, he wasn't the stereotypical math-only geek. He was also an excellent writer from what I had seen. I personally talked to him about the asian stereotypes involved in college admissions many times last year. Heck, did any of you guys see what happened to all the ED's and RD's last year? There were so many fantastic students that were so well-rounded, yet they failed in to a top Ivy League school. Everyone started saying that there was an "affirmative action" against these elite Asian students who failed to get into schools with stats much higher than that of their white, black, and hispanic counterparts. </p>
<p>The former president of Duke even said that 50% of people get in just by their academic merits. 50%!? I guarantee you that more than half of those people are Asian, and the other 50% that gets in because of legacy or donations are white.</p>
<p>He got into Yale because of his interview; he talked about this very same topic and the interviewer strongly agreed.</p>
<p>By the way, if IIRC, Yale has lower admissions rates than all other schools in the nation. So, he gets into Yale, but not anywhere else? C'mon...</p>
<p>this guy needs to stop whining...the sooner people realize life isn't fair, the better off they'll be</p>
<p>His reasoning is that stats trump all else, and they shouldn't....so he got perfect scores, big deal, and i really mean that</p>
<p>if his awards were academic, that is just a repeat of his GPA, if his ECs were fluff, or was he a real leader?</p>
<p>I still suspect his arrogance came through on his application, and I could care less his race.</p>
<p>TO me, any applicant who thinks his/'her #s should be enough and the only criteria that matters doesn't deserve to go to those schools, as he is missing the basic part of humanity- personallity, passions, drives, etc</p>
<p>If he thinks admission should be on stats alone, that school would indeed be boring and lacking in alll he thinks he wants</p>
<p>and to add on citygirlsmom's post
harvard, princeton, stanford, penn, and MIT probably all thought he was arrogant...there was a reason why all those great universities rejected him, and that was it</p>
<p>citygirlsmom, where are you getting this idea that he thinks with perfect stats, he should get in everywhere? I'm not seeing it. You know almost nothing about him, but somehow attempt to judge his arrogance?</p>
<p>It makes absolutely no sense for Mr. Li to compare himself to another person in his class who was accepted to these universities. </p>
<p>These schools are looking for more than just scores. Perhaps the white person's essays were better, perhaps the white person's recs were better, or perhaps the white person's ECs were a better fit with the college.</p>
<p>19382, I think it's kind of implicit in the nature of his lawsuit. He's suing Princeton because he thinks he should've gotten in. And if he thinks he should've gotten into Princeton, there's no reason to believe he concedes that he wasn't good enough for Stanford, Harvard, or Penn.</p>
<p>I'm confused. HYPSM make it no secret that they rejected 60-70% of the perfect scorers who applied, and Duke rejected 41%. Did he not believe this, or did he just not think it would happen to him?</p>
<p>"She had lower stats than Jian, but she got into all the schools that Jian failed to get into."</p>
<p>My point exactly. CGM's point exactly.</p>
<p>The arrogance aspect is to assume that you "know" what another's qualifications are and are not. You know only what is published, what is discussed, what can be quantified. Unless your high school is corrupt to the core, you didn't see the female competitor's teacher recommendations, nor her personal essays, nor her personal statements as to why she saw those colleges as great fits. Sounds, actually, as if she may be one hell of a writer, since so many colleges accepted her. But I don't know this person. Perhaps she had some private personal challenge which is absolutely none of your business & to which you had no access, nor authority to judge or compare. </p>
<p>That's where the arrogance comes in.</p>
<p>Also, warblersrule nailed it in her last post. Some of us keep reminding folks of this factoid; some of you don't want to believe it, so you sue. Terrific.</p>
<p>"You know only what is published, what is discussed, what can be quantified.</p>
<p>If the subjective factors themselves are being used as a cover with URMs for example, then a university cannot use these same criteria as a pretense to engage is race based admission. </p>
<p>Also it is not a "suit", it's a complaint with Dept of Ed, Office for Civil Rights - which is entirely different</p>
<p>This complaint concerns the issue of the aggregate treatment of asians and seeks to suspend all preferences: whether by race, athletic ability, legacy and so forth</p>
<p>As the agency describes a complaint can be filed by anyone who believes that an education institution that receives Federal financial assistance has discriminated against someone on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, disability, or age and as stated "the person or organization filing the complaint need not be a victim of the alleged discrimination, but may complain on behalf of another person or group."</p>
<p>The point his complaint is obviously addressing the larger issue whether Asians as an entire group are being discriminated against</p>
<p>"I would almost bet you his applications were average."</p>
<p>right, just another average accepted on-the-merits Yale first year student</p>
<p>Whether you think the lawsuit is warranted or not, the unfairness of college admissions when it comes to race and ethnicity is quite obvious.</p>
<p>What truly is a shame is that groups get PUNISHED FOR DOING WELL. When they first came to this country, many Asian immigrants were no better off than their black or hispanic counterparts. Yet, through a strong emphasis on education, the Asian population as a whole (not to stereotype) has risen to the top academically. So what do the colleges do? THEY PUNISH THE ASIANS FOR THEIR SUCCESS. It is absolutely absurd!</p>
<p>There is absolutely nothing wrong with affirmative action for the disadvantaged or poor. However, the assumption that anybody of a certain race is at a disadvantage while people of other races have it easy is flawed. There are plenty of wealthy African American and Hispanic families and plenty of poor white families. Meanwhile, the wealthy minorities will get a boost while the poor whites are not helped.</p>
<p>I am not Asian, but I sympathize with my Asian friends. I remember reading on some website that a Chinese student with a 2300+ SAT score and perfect grades was just a "typical" Asian. Well, if he is truly a typical Asian, then the Asians should be rewarded, not punished. </p>
<p>This is the same sort of thing that happened to the Jews the early and mid twentieth century.</p>
<p>CITATION X,</p>
<p>Remember, "average" in the context of HPYMS admissions can mean "average within a certain range." The average admit to any one of the aforementioned letters certainly is not average in the grand scheme of things. But if I'm 50th percentile at Yale, it's likely that I'm 50th percentile at Princeton as well.</p>
<p>I applaud the Mrs. Lis courage do file such a complaint. </p>
<p>The kid got perfect scores, who to say its not big deal? It took tremendous hard work and smarts to get that type of scores. These are the exact qualities to succeed in business world. 99.9% of the population is this country wont get these types of scores if they study 25 hours a day.</p>
<p>If hes arrogant, then he has capitals to be arrogant. His capitals are his scores. The colleges who reject him and legacies who sided with the colleges equally have the capitals to be arrogant, and their capitals are money ( to be blunt).</p>
<p>However, money is like river, it will flow from the legacies kids to Mr. Lis kids. Nobody discriminates Michael Jodans kids. Sometimes, it takes a generation to get there. If you are smart, hard working, youll get there. Asians will be able to donate like all of the Duke legacies someday. The trend is there, you just have to look at all the goods in sold in America, Chinese are making money and a lot of money. Theyll be able to buy their ways into elite colleges soon. </p>
<p>Be careful not to call other people arrogant. Someday, you or your kids may be in that position. Remember, money flows, if you have them now but your offspring are slackers, they will not be able to keep the money. Itll flow into Mr Lis kids. Trust me, itll happen. </p>
<p>After all, society MUST value meritocracy.</p>
<p>Yeah, like most candidates with only great numbers (nothing else 'outstanding'), he would probably get into one or two of HYPMS. This is the case. I'm sure if he posted his stats on CC, a few would give the comment, "Most likely in at 1 or 2 of your top choices."</p>
<p>
[quote]
After all, society MUST value meritocracy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are we using your definition of meritocracy or that of HYPMS?</p>
<p>It has been said before that this is the American culture, not the Asian culture. Colleges judge holistically, not solely on numbers and it seems to be working out quite fine so I doubt it will change in the near future.</p>
<p>This is America. We need PROOF for everything. As stated by Jian himself in emails, and in the article(s), he had to prove his statement that their is Asian-American bias in college admissions. He didn't use the comparison at first, but when his complaint failed, he had to use a comparison to a fellow student for the appeal. </p>
<p>No one here realizes what he is doing. What benefit will he get if his complaint is officially recognized as the truth? Would Princeton suddenly let him in? Probably not...He has no apparent benefit from this official complaint other than just getting the word out that this reverse discrimination probably occurs in college admissions. I have talked to many friends about college admission affirmative action, and many people agree with Jian's position. They may not be willing to stand up in the crowd, but Jian at least took the initiative, and now he's under fire for just standing up for what he believes in.</p>
<p>Actually, money flows like a river AND pools like a lake.</p>
<p>:p</p>
<p>it is true that HYP are overloaded with perfect score types, so one might say he could be "average" in their terms. We need to know the rest of his data - maybe its posted on this web site somwhere already</p>
<p>Like I said earlier, I know him personally, but I'm still curious as to what stats you're looking for.</p>