Asians and College Prestige.

College Search & Selection
381

<p>This is an interesting thread. </p>

<p>I'm not Asian. I grew up as one of four children in a Caucasian family that had recently achieved middle class status.</p>

<p>Three of us would have been classified as gifted, had they been classifying children in that fashion in those days (a few decades in the past). Our parents put no real pressure on us to achieve academic success. </p>

<p>I was the only one of the four of us to graduate from a 4-year school. </p>

<p>I fell in with an academically ambitious crowd in high school. One of my teachers convinced me that I should apply to Ivy League schools. Not really knowing any better, I applied only to Ivy League schools, but did manage to get into one of them. I had three Asian-American classmates, two of whom were good friends of mine. One of them was headed for the same college, and we began dating. </p>

<p>She was aghast when I told her that both of my sisters (like my mother) had married at the age of 18, and were perfectly contented with their lives. Her view was that people should achieve as much academically as they were capable of achieving.</p>

<p>We were together nearly five years. Under her influence, I learned to speak the language of her family, and later found myself in a position to benefit professionally from that facility.</p>

<p>I ultimately married an African-American woman who came from a family with similar attitudes toward academic achievement. Her parents had four children; all of them have bachelor's degrees from highly regarded universities. Two of them are lawyers, and the other two have MBAs.</p>

<p>What did I learn from this experience?</p>

<p>I learned that there really is a relationship between maximizing your educational potential, and maximizing your chances of being happy. That was not a lesson I could have learned in my family of origin, which had no real experience of such things.</p>

<p>If your parents have been putting a lot of emphasis on the belief that academic success can lead to success in life, consider thanking them for being frank with you about the way things really are.</p>

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<p>alright, there is a reason why Asian parents/grand parents/relatives push hard for brand name schools. the reality is that in Asia, getting into the top schools is crucial for placing people into the certain career tracks, by which, people are devided into distinct socioeconomic classes. In other words, many asian countries "filter" gifted vs non-gifted students at early stage, and the college entrance is a means of accomplishing that purpose. it is very hard for someone, in asia, who did poorly in hs and went to a second tier school to catch up with others who went to top schools in regards to social, political, or economic opportunities. </p>

<p>However, this is not the case with the American society. here, going to a top school is merely a bonus, not a necessity, to a success. That is where the confusion lies. many Americans, even Asian Americans would wonder why Asians are 'crazy' about brand name schools. It is just that many asian parents may not be fully aware of how American society functions as a whole. Even if they do know, they still would want their kids to attend top U.S. colleges because they themselves were under so much pressure to go to top schools back in Asia. So, this is a cultural issue, and this does not necessarily imply that Asians are plain prestige whores.</p>

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<p>Haha, well I am Asian, but I encountered quite the contrary.</p>

<p>Yeah I was pressured when I was a tyke, but my parents stopped after around 2nd grade. Despite the lack of parental pressure, I still did well in school and I continued it. When college admissions rolled around, I chose schools based on the school's environment rather than prestige. </p>

<p>The school I liked just happened to be an Ivy League school, but I didn't choose it solely based on that one factor? My parents actually would have preferred me attending the state school based on the cost factor. </p>

<p>And I've met other Asians that are in similar situations (Pressured to attend state schools, closer to home, less cost). Just remember a key statistics principle: correlation does not mean causation.</p>

384

<p>I guess I'm the only non-stereotypical asian.</p>

<p>My grades are less than subpar 3.7 GPA no honors or ap classes, just cp, my sats (took 1, plan to take 1 more) arn't that great (500 CR, 670 Math 580 Writing) . I play football and track, and basically have no ECS. No class rank in school</p>

<p>My parents don't really care about what college i go to, they are blue collar who work 12+ hours a day who both did not go to college. I am a first gen korean, and hopefully the first to enter college. My parent's asian freinds tho do kinda brag about their colleges, and i don't want to dissapoint my parents. Will be difficult for them for college tho.</p>

<p>I want to major in accounting, but dunno where to apply. Im pretty much fvked. anyone wanna give me some reach/target schools for me? I live in NJ so i'll probably apply to rutgers (dunno if i get accepted)</p>

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<p>"It is just that many asian parents may not be fully aware of how American society functions as a whole."</p>

<p>Then when exactly are they going to learn? How long does it take? It may be a teeny bit understandable if they're new arrivals, but it doesn't explain the number of non-new-arrivals with the same mentality. At what point does a resident of a country -- a citizen or merely an intended citizen -- decide that it might just be a good idea to learn how the country you're living in operates, so that you can succeed, survive, & thrive within the context of the country you have decided to adopt-- not anyone forcing you to live there, rather <em>your</em> decision?</p>

<p>Again, no one seems to see it from the other way 'round. If I moved to Asia & clung to Western assumptions, I wouldn't succeed within the context of that region or country, either. I'd either continually beat my head against a brick wall and/or drive everyone crazy by refusing to adapt to the realities of the way the country in question operates. It would be their institutions, not Western institutions.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Then when exactly are they going to learn? How long does it take? It may be a teeny bit understandable if they're new arrivals, but it doesn't explain the number of non-new-arrivals with the same mentality. At what point does a resident of a country -- a citizen or merely an intended citizen -- decide that it might just be a good idea to learn how the country you're living in operates, so that you can succeed, survive, & thrive within the context of the country you have decided to adopt-- not anyone forcing you to live there, rather <em>your</em> decision?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, as I have explained b4, the Asian parents who were cultured under Asian countries would push for their kids to go to top schools, just bc they were under that envrionment as well during their youth. Let's face it. If a Mexican parent is a die-hard soccer fan (bc soccer is popular in Mexico), then, even if this parent moves to U.S. and has kids born in U.S., he will inevitably continue watching soccer despite the lack of popularity for that sport in U.S. and thus, his kids will also grow up watching the sport and end up liking it in ideal situations. Although this parent is aware of the fact that football, baseball, and basketball trump soccer in the U.S., will that fact have any bearing in leading this parent to change his hobbies/lifestyles and enforce other sports onto his kids? I would bet that this parent, had he have the choice, would want his kid to end up as a soccer player, not football, basketball player.</p>

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<p>patlees, thank you for responding. However, the situation you describe is not parallel. In the first case we were talking understanding how to be accepted into an already established Western institution with a particular given culture & a set of expectations about applicants. If I had moved to Asia and expected my children to become professionals there --probably not a good example of mine, because of greater difficulty of assimilation in a different type or types of society(ies) -- but just for theoretical sake, I wouldn't expect to change my goals for them, no. Precisely BECAUSE I would want to retain those goals, I would look at how IN THAT COUNTRY my children would best achieve those goals, knowing that the path or paths could be quite different in a different environment than my native one. I don't see why that concept is so difficult to understand. </p>

<p>I certainly, though, wouldn't expect my own cultural habits, traditions, preferences to change (whether that involves a preference for certain sports or certain arts, etc.). It seems to me that <em>particularly</em> because the journey is made to another country with such specific goals in mind, that pragmatism would drive the decisions about how to achieve those goals in a country very different from one's own.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Then when exactly are they going to learn? How long does it take? It may be a teeny bit understandable if they're new arrivals, but it doesn't explain the number of non-new-arrivals with the same mentality. At what point does a resident of a country -- a citizen or merely an intended citizen -- decide that it might just be a good idea to learn how the country you're living in operates, so that you can succeed, survive, & thrive within the context of the country you have decided to adopt-- not anyone forcing you to live there, rather <em>your</em> decision?</p>

<p>Again, no one seems to see it from the other way 'round. If I moved to Asia & clung to Western assumptions, I wouldn't succeed within the context of that region or country, either. I'd either continually beat my head against a brick wall and/or drive everyone crazy by refusing to adapt to the realities of the way the country in question operates. It would be their institutions, not Western institutions.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I define first-generation as the immigrant generation and the second-generation as the immigrant’s children who are native-born in the “new” country. I’ll speak for Chinese parents.</p>

<p>It’s true that many first-generation Chinese parents view the process of American college admissions in a Chinese lens (i.e. a heavy emphasis on standardized testing and prestige.) They see the SAT as a direct analogue to the gaokao they took when they were high school kids and the Ivy Leagues as the equivalent of Qinghua, Beijing University, and others.</p>

<p>They are mistaken that the SAT is a direct counterpart to the gaokao. They are not mistaken that the Ivy Leagues are the best schools in terms of prestige. We are not talking about best undergraduate education. We are talking about the “name brand” that everybody knows and respects. My father knew of the name Harvard when he first set foot in North America. He didn’t learn that Swarthmore existed until he started applying for assistant professor positions.</p>

<p>But, don’t worry, epiphany, we’re not as obstinate as you think we are. The third generation – my generation’s children – will be fully Americanized. We never lived through the Chinese educational system; we only heard stories about it. We lived through the American educational system. That is our framework.</p>

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<p>great reply, fabrizio. Thanks!:)</p>

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<p>Im from India and my parents are also first gen indian parents here.</p>

<p>I also have numerous incidents like the one the OP and many others mentioned. First in the Indian circle, the only colleges that exist are Ivy league schools. So if you don't get into an Ivy league school, no one talks to you or respects you anymore. I'm not saying this as a stereotype, this is the truth, i know because i have experienced and seen other kids get that kind of treatment. The few who do get into the Ivies are basically god. </p>

<p>I HATE THIS COMMUNITY SO MUCH!!!!! Basically people think that college defines youre intellegence, thus the more "prestigeous" college you go to the more intellegent and capable you are.</p>

<p>That is a load of ********.</p>

<p>I swear I won't put my kids through this kind of pressure. its horrible.</p>

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<p>haha wow idont live in the "circle" that you do but it sounds very sucky</p>

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<p>wow there are way too many generalizations and stereotypes enforced in this thread to even take most of these people seriously
i don't think asians in the united states are any more prestige hungry than any other race...obviously none of us have met every single asian in the united states, but as an asian myself, i think asians being very successful academically has led to more asians applying to top tier schools, including the Ivy league, and more asians being represented and associated with those schools.</p>

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<p>@supindy:</p>

<p>Really? I recently read a great short story by Jhumpa Lahiri where her main character attends Swarthmore College. Of course, J.L. doesn't speak on behalf of, or represent, the entire Indian race, but I think she's done a good job so far. She herself attended Barnard <em>shrug.</em> She usually includes many different institutions, popular among Indians, in her short stories.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
wow there are way too many generalizations and stereotypes enforced in this thread to even take most of these people seriously
i don't think asians in the united states are any more prestige hungry than any other race...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>i think you are wrong. being around asian families all my life, I cannot possibly agree with your statement.</p>

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<p>i don't think asians in the united states are any more prestige hungry than any other race...</p>

<p>trust every asian who says so, most of the families are crazy</p>

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<p>I dont really know how the asian cultural value of having to go to a prestigious school came from. but its definitely there.</p>

<p>Of course, yes, not all asian families are like this, but a very, very good number... i dunno, maybe our parents (being immigrants) brought the confucian value of learning to the extreme from their home country >.></p>

<p>sources: im asian, i'm familiar with other cultures and can compare</p>

397

<p>Ughh - not this again.</p>

<p>1st off, there is the SAME % of Asian-Am students in higher education attending community-college as there is for African-Am students.</p>

<p>2nd - I can say the same thing for Jewish students or WASP-students who grew up in affluent suburbs (or places like Manhattan).</p>

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<p>I wonder, then, why there aren't any threads on CC from Jewish students in which they complain that their parents are making them study math / science / business when they really would prefer something else, in which they complain that their parents are fixated on the Ivies, and in which they complain that they feel rejected from their families and that they're always being compared to cousin so-and-so who got into Harvard and how they're bringing dishonor on the family by getting a B+ in AP Physics. Why do you suppose we don't see those posts? Because the culture is different. Yes, generally speaking, learning, education and advanced degrees are considered important. But there is not the fixation on the 8 Ivy League schools plus a few selected others that there is in the Asian community. And, there is more recognition that people going to (gasp) state schools can have quite fine futures ahead of them too.</p>

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<p>I am a Chinese American. We vaule the education to the highest and we love our children to the best. I don't think there is any thing wrong for us to want the best for our children.</p>

<p>Granted, the "best" could have different interpretations by others. In our mind, it starts with a great education. Going to the best university definitely helps in that regard.</p>

<p>I could be wrong but I think a lot of this anti Chinese on Cc is based on Jealous. Because of our love and our children's effort, we have placed a very high % into the very best education institutions in the world. </p>

<p>I don't have any data, but I suspect that the medium worth of Asians will be higher comparing to others. One of the key factors will be the high % of our children being well educated in the best universities.</p>

<p>PS. Our kids have all the normal aspect of lifes, BF/GF, E/C, travel, games etc. My own kids have tons of EC while they enjoy learning. We don't need to force them to take math or whatever. (sad for me to say but "can you really force a teenage to do any thing?"). Both my kids pick the classes they want to take. As a matter of the fact, my DD did not take AP chem in her senior year, even so I think that was important class if she wanted a career in science.</p>

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<p>"Asian" isn't a race, BUT as a Chinese Singaporean I wonder sometimes if it's so much valuing education as valuing paper qualifications. There's a difference. As much as I love my relatives, they're completely annoying at times. In general, the Asian elderly are the most conservative and the worst. [Which is why they rule my birth country hahahahahaha.] There's a herd mentality involved.</p>

<p>I mean, why don't I hear of some refreshing parental aspirations, like, "I'm pushing my son/daughter to become a journalist/writer for the New Yorker or the Economist!" Those are intellectual positions too. Become not just a doctor, but a M</p>