<p>galoisien, you're the most idealistic person. evarr. you remind me of a younger me.</p>
<p>"Granted, the "best" could have different interpretations by others. In our mind, it starts with a great education. Going to the best university definitely helps in that regard."</p>
<p>Lots of subjectivity in the term "best," that's the point that even you raised. Best is subjective. Depends on who's evaluating. Depends on the field. It might be "best" to go to NYU for business undergrad. It might be "best" to go to Stanford for computer science. It might be "best" to go to UCBerkeley for nano-engineering. It might be "best" to go to Middlebury for foreign language study. It might be "best" to go to University of Chicago if the aim is a career in academia. It might be "best" to go to Mannes or Julliard to become a professional musician.</p>
<p>Also, if grad school or professional school is important, it might be "best" to attend an undergrad school where the student is likely to be a stand-out producer, or make friends academically with a mentor-professor, than to attend a cut-throat competitive University where it will be hard to stand out.</p>
<p>It's not just about name. It's about opportunity.</p>
<p>"I am a Chinese American. We vaule the education to the highest and we love our children to the best."</p>
<p>I'm sure we all love our children just as much as you love yours. </p>
<p>"Granted, the "best" could have different interpretations by others. In our mind, it starts with a great education. Going to the best university definitely helps in that regard."</p>
<p>But that's the whole point. Many Asians define the "best" very narrowly - Ivies and a few select others. In my opinion, going to a Carleton, a Middlebury, an Oberlin, a Reed, a Davidson, etc. is just as much "the best" as going to the Ivies. The truly sophisticated people know that, and don't Ivy-chase. It's the people who are very naive, who seriously think that only these handful of select schools are "the best." I don't blame people who are newer to this country for not having heard of those names, of course. </p>
<p>When I see / hear of someone who is chasing Ivies with that determination (without even distinguishing between the Ivies - just "My kid has to be at an Ivy")l, it makes me think of the kind of person who wears Louis Vuitton from head to toe and thinks that they're showing exquisite designer taste. They think they're showing their taste, but true taste knows better, and knows that fine things aren't necessarily known by or defined by what the masses think.</p>
<p>"I could be wrong but I think a lot of this anti Chinese on Cc is based on Jealous. Because of our love and our children's effort, we have placed a very high % into the very best education institutions in the world."</p>
<p>LOL - no jealousy here. It's a disagreement with how the value system manifests itself in high pressure and an Ivy-chase. </p>
<p>"I don't have any data, but I suspect that the medium worth of Asians will be higher comparing to others. One of the key factors will be the high % of our children being well educated in the best universities."</p>
<p>Great. Net worth and the big bucks aren't my end goal when it comes to my goals for my children's education.</p>
<p>Dad II, you're being disingenous. You thought all hope was lost when your son was getting a B in an AP History course, if I recall properly.</p>
<p>"Lots of subjectivity in the term "best," that's the point that even you raised. Best is subjective. Depends on who's evaluating. Depends on the field."</p>
<p>And there's nothing wrong with "great," either. For example, my state flagship school is a very good school. It's not Harvard, but so what? Plenty of people go there, learn a lot, and go on and do well in life.</p>
<p>Generally speaking, all the immigrants who have come to America (except for illigal immigrants) have come the "hard way". America only allowed highly educated people come to America. This includes all countries, not only China and South Korea. Thus, most of these immigrants are bright and want their children to succeed and reach a certain level of prestige. This "pressure" placed on the kids is not only on the Asian's, it's on almost all immigrants. Trust me, you haven't met my parents either.</p>
<p>The problem is many Asian American immigrants see the Ivies as being the BEST and only way to success. Truthfully, the school you goto plays only a small part in your success.</p>
<p>I pretty much agree with #382 and #388.</p>
<p>My mother has pushed me ahead all my life. Regardless of whether I felt like being ambitious or not, she's always believed that I had the potential to attend a "Top University." Growing up with that pressure might've been hard, but now that the college application process is over and I'm headed on my way, I have gained appreciation for the so-called "asian method."</p>
<p>She just wants the best, and as far as she knows it, the best is Harvard/Princeton/Yale. Haha, to her, I'm going to be attending a second rate college (Dartmouth), but she's accepted that. It gets annoying at times, but I know she does it out of love. Really, it just shows how much she believes in my potential, and how much she worries that I'll lose my ambition and become complacent.</p>
<p>Plus, I've also heard her bragging about me behind my back. It's kinda sweet.</p>
<p>@Bleedblue: The Ives ARE the BEST. It's just that they don't realize there are other top colleges also considered the BEST, especially field-wise. Honestly, the easiest way to remedy that is by communicating to them and getting them to look at college programs beyond the rankings. Where you go to only plays a small part in success, but, as my mother sees it, it's the first step. To a degree, I can agree with that; true, undergrad isn't so important for its sake alone, but the connections formed and the people met can help maximize chances of succeeding in the future.</p>
<p>I wouldn't say Asians are more prestige hungry as a race. Asian AMERICANS are more prestige hungry than Asians as a whole, and that's because they're in a new country and the name-college degree creates a sense of security than the state college might not. I don't see this mindset with second/third/fourth generation immigrants and their children, Asians who were born and raised in America--they don't take the stereotypical mindset that you guys seem to expect.</p>
<p>"I don't have any data, but I suspect that the medium worth of Asians will be higher comparing to others. One of the key factors will be the high % of our children being well educated in the best universities."</p>
<p>You know what I think is so funny? I've lived in the suburbs of 3 major northern cities. In any of these cities, go to the nicest, most affluent suburbs. Go to the subdivisions and gated communities where the houses start at $2 MM on up. And go figure out where the residents went to school. The vast majority of them still went to that state's flagship state u or perhaps a neighboring state's flagship -- and just worked hard and got successful by dint of their work ethic, personality and natural smarts. It's not at all the case that the nicest / most well-to-do areas are populated by HYPSM grads. I think a lot of new immigrants would do well to remember that part, as they often seem to equate HYPSM attendance with financial security and success.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I wouldn't say Asians are more prestige hungry as a race. Asian AMERICANS are more prestige hungry than Asians as a whole, and that's because they're in a new country and the name-college degree creates a sense of security than the state college might not. I don't see this mindset with second/third/fourth generation immigrants and their children, Asians who were born and raised in America--they don't take the stereotypical mindset that you guys seem to expect.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Exactly - funny how no one says the same thing about the children of African immigrants who are vastly overrepresented at the Ivies (in relation to the rest of the black pop. in the US) or Eastern European immigrants.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The problem is many Asian American immigrants see the Ivies as being the BEST and only way to success.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, I guess that's why there aren't that many Asian students at Stanford or UCB (much less schools like UCI).</p>
<p>
[quote]
But that's the whole point. Many Asians define the "best" very narrowly - Ivies and a few select others. In my opinion, going to a Carleton, a Middlebury, an Oberlin, a Reed, a Davidson, etc. is just as much "the best" as going to the Ivies. The truly sophisticated people know that, and don't Ivy-chase. It's the people who are very naive, who seriously think that only these handful of select schools are "the best." I don't blame people who are newer to this country for not having heard of those names, of course.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Right... that's why HYPSM and rest of the top 15-20 schools get so much of the attention here and why the USNWR rankings are such a big seller.</p>
<p>I guess those Asian students who attend Wellesley (over 25% Asian) are just wierd.</p>
<p>Although this study primarily focuses on Chinese cultural influences in educational attainment, I think there are some overlaps with regard to the higher emphasis of educational excellence in other Asian cultures.</p>
<p>Chinese</a> Parents' Influence on Academic Performance</p>
<p>An excerpt:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most immigrant Asian parents have high expectations of their children's performance in school. They still value education highly and believe that a good education will eventually offer a good living; thus, they put immense pressure on their children to strive for academic excellence. Education has always been considered a ladder leading to a better and higher social status
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Exactly - funny how no one says the same thing about the children of African immigrants who are vastly overrepresented at the Ivies (in relation to the rest of the black pop. in the US) or Eastern European immigrants.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Although I'm assuming you didn't mean this in absolute terms, as this has been a point of emphasis by some, hence, in admissions, the status of one's African American status may be qualified by whether or not one is of a recent Carribean, West Indian, or West African decent in some selective school admission considerations.</p>
<p>Prestige matters to some people. Don't worry about it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Odd, my school has a lot of very bright, overachieving Asians. Usually I hear them talking about Rutgers or TCNJ. This is New Jersey. Are things different in California??
[/quote]
y e s</p>
<p>How does the University of Texas at Austin rank among Asian(also Indian) prestige? I'm going there for CivilEng, Architecture, and business foundations, all of three that are highly ranked, in USNEWS(which I hate) and individual rankings like DesignIntelligence, Businessweek, and NEC. But aside from academics, I'm going to Texas because Austin's such a beautiful and up and coming place with potential, and I think I'll have a great all around college experience with the sports and people skills I'll learn with so many people.</p>
<p>I hate the whole notion of Asian/Indian prestige, and although the whole thing is loosening up IMO, I still see other families with small children who send their kids to genius academy every moment out of school and essentially brainwash them into being Ivy material, thinking being a genius will get em in. And boy do they brag at get together; like, "Raj got a 100 on his tests" first thing they say at the door. It just disheartens me to know that just stellar grades aren't going to cut it to get to any good school, and this indoctrination is gonna hurt 'em bad.</p>
<p>In any case, I know quite a few smart fellas who ended up at UT from Jersey, and I know quite a bit of international students, like from China/Korea/India go to UT. Just wondering how it's viewed prestige-wise by Asians, curious. I know that working hard'll pay off in the end, though.</p>
<p>Reading this thread is very interesting. Hispanics are just the opposite. At least in my extended family the parents never push the kids to go to a certain school like Asian parents do. In fact my parents want me to go to a state school because tuition will be like 6k, even though we could easily afford a more expensive school. In fact they're telling me NOT to apply to Ivy Leagues even though I have a decent chance.</p>
<p>I believe the ideal parent of a college hopeful is probably somewhere in the middle.</p>
<p>As a gut reaction, at times I just want to burn the entire Asian elderly generations (at least for my specific ethnic background). Now of course I love my parent and grandparents, but sometimes I can't stand the entrenched conservatism in their generations -- and it's more entrenched than in the elderly of all the other ethnic classifications. Now this is in general -- that is to say won't harp on someone for being elderly and a member of my ethnic group and have plenty of close ones [some not blood-related] who fit that category -- I resent the class as a whole. In my birth country, it is the Singaporean-Chinese gerontocracy who are the most resistant to reform and change, with silly excuses like "Asian culture and values make Western-style democracy and civil rights unsuitable for our society." What a load of bloody nonsense. It is the Singaporean-Chinese gerontocracy that fears the racial percentages for their racial group in my birth country falling below 75% (already a very high number), harps on social prestige and propriety (gotta love neo-fascist-confucianism) and the corrupting influences of "Westernisation," and has outdated ideas when it comes to marrying and having kids. ("THREE DAUGHTERS?!! NO SONS?!! WHO'S GOING TO CARRY ON THE FAMILY NAME? NOW TRY FOR ANOTHER SON OR I WILL DISOWN YOU.") The Asian gerontocracy in fact, happens to be (as a statistical trend) one of the most racially bigoted groups out there, and is more concerned about racial purity and miscegenation than shall I say, the KKK. While we Asian youth would rather move on these superficial issues, it is the gerontocracy and the Asian elderly who continue to root us in backwardness.</p>
<p>This comic sums up my feeling about the Asian gerontocracy perfectly.</p>
<p>People make it seem like Asian students don't attend other colleges in significant nos.</p>
<p>UDub has a 22% Asian student pop., Wellesley has 25%, and Rutgers and UHouston have a 20% Asian student pop.</p>
<p>USC has 21%, Georgia Tech has 13%, UT has 15% and UIUC, Case Western, SUNY-Binghamton and UMich all have 12%.</p>
<p>And that's not counting the signifcant % of Asian students attending community college.</p>
<p>haha some of these posts kill me, being asian I realize that we do seem to go towards the higher schools however only a monority within the asian community are truly smart enough to do it, the perception that all asians are smart is ridiculously false, here is my take: first generation asians have to take 2 or 3 tests to even be able to apply for the CHANCE to come to America so therefore they are smart, so 2nd generation asian kids thus may be either smart or dumb (lol) and many are trying too hard to hold the conception of asians being smart. My 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt.</p>