<p>Since you claim high asian population % = well known among Asian parents, why isn't Riverside well known? (Please dont say it is, lol.)</p>
<p>fabrizio,</p>
<p>The fact that Upenn (or Dartmouth) is well known among those Asian students (and their parents) who choose to apply to that school does not mean it is well known among Asian parents or students in general. I think that's what MrPrez is saying.</p>
<p>Fact: Asians have only two vulnerable: School and Video Games</p>
<p>As an asian if I don't get into Harvard, Princeton, or Yale, I will kill myself.</p>
<p>As an asian, if I can't get the best high ranked character with all the best items in World of Warcraft and be the best video gamer, I'll kill myself.</p>
<p>Firecube2426:
Stacraft<3</p>
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Where are you trying to go by telling me that I was the one who said it?
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<p>First, what is “it?” Second, what did you originally write, anyway?</p>
<p>* That wasn't my point. Just because Asians make up 15% of the freshman class doesn't mean UPenn/Dartmouth are well known among Asian parents. Especially ones in Korea.</p>
<p>Large asian student population =/= well known among asian parents*</p>
<p>You say that “15% of the freshman class doesn't mean UPenn/Dartmouth are well known among Asian parents.” You then say that “Large asian student population =/= well known among asian parents.” Was I to assume that these were completely independent thoughts? That they had no relationship to each other whatsoever? Maybe that is what you meant, but when I read that post, I linked the 15% with “Large asian student population.”</p>
<p>Assuming that I read your post correctly, I was pointing out the oddity in rhetorically asking “You consider 15% LARGE Asian population?” when it was in fact you who first made the connection between 15% and “Large asian student population.” Of course, I may well have misread your post. Maybe you meant for those statements to be treated independently.</p>
<p>I think youd be hard pressed to say that Riverside is not a well known university among California Asians and for that matter, California residents as a whole. Now, if you want to extend the question, have you ever heard of Riverside? to the entire country, well, then youve got me. No, I cant say that many Asians have heard of Riverside simply because it has a very high Asian student population.</p>
<p>More generally, no I cant say that a school is well known among Asians because of its high Asian student body. Of course, if a school has a lot of Asians, then a lot of Asian parents do know about the school and have heard of it because their kids are students there. Thats just common sense. But! That doesnt mean its well known among all Asians. It just means that its well known among the over 9,000 Asians who applied, attended, or graduated from the school. You are right.</p>
<p>Now, having that said, I am still quite skeptical about your claim that Many of them have never heard of UPenn or Dartmouth Do you have any proof besides Most Koreans dont know about the schools?</p>
<p>Fabrizio, Many Asian parents are immigrants, so they would have only heard about schools that are famous outside of the United States (this was the case with my parents). Thus, Asian parents love Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Mit, Stanford, etc. and have not heard about schools with little international prestige such as Dartmouth or Upenn.</p>
<p>Since when is UPenn a no-name school, anyway? It has arguably the best school of business in the entire nation!</p>
<p>If we’re just going to offer generalizations as proof, then consider this: one of my friends is Chinese and was accepted to UPenn off the waitlist after May 1. He had already submitted his acceptance deposit to Georgia Tech but when he was notified that he had been admitted to UPenn, he gladly paid the deposit to UPenn. I found out via Facebook and proceeded to congratulate him on his wall. Twenty other people had already done so, and you know what? They were all Asian.</p>
<p>Yeah, twenty people ain’t a whole lot. But, as far as generalizations go, I have a hard time believing that UPenn is a no-name school among Asians.</p>
<p>UPenn is HUGE with peoples of Asian descent who live on the East Coast.</p>
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Since when is UPenn a no-name school, anyway? It has arguably the best school of business in the entire nation!
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<p>Who said Upenn is a no-name school? You did. Penn and Dartmouth may be known well in the States (this is debatable, many laymen have not heard of these schools) but they are not as well known outside of the US RELATIVE TO HYPSM. See how they do in international rankings compared to HYPSM. </p>
<p>As for my argument that most Asian parents are immigrants, how is this an invalid generalization? If most of them are immigrants then they won't know about every single top US school. They will only know of the ones at the very, very top such as Harvard, MIT, Yale, etc. that are relatively well known outside of the states. Many laypeople haven't heard of Penn or Dartmouth; they often confuse Penn for Penn State. If such people in the United States don't know about these schools, how do you expect immigrants to know about these schools?</p>
<p>Look- I am arguing about Asian-American parents here, not all Asians. The original claim was that Penn/Dartmouth are not well known among Asian Parents, but you seemed to ignore that we're arguing about Asian parents here, not all Asians.</p>
<p>Im sorry to mischaracterize your little international prestige comment as no-name. My sincerest apologies.</p>
<p>Seriously, though, spare me the word game. If it is in fact true that so many Asian parents don't know excellent schools exist outside of [HYPSM], then whats the difference between little international prestige and no-name?</p>
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then what’s the difference between “…little international prestige…” and “no-name”?
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<p>A school with relatively little international prestige can be known very well in the United states. Take for example, Penn, Brown, or Dartmouth. These schools are well known in the States, but aren't so well known outside the country (relatively).</p>
<p>A school with no-name is, well, a school with no name (take for example your local universities). It is not well known either in the states or outside the states.</p>
<p>There is a definite difference between "no-name" and "relatively small international prestige."</p>
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As for my argument that most Asian parents are immigrants, how is this an invalid generalization? If most of them are immigrants then they won't know about every single top US school. They will only know of the ones at the very, very top such as Harvard, MIT, Yale, etc. that are relatively well known outside of the states. Many laypeople haven't heard of Penn or Dartmouth; they often confuse Penn for Penn State. If such people in the United States don't know about these schools, how do you expect immigrants to know about these schools?
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<p>I never said it was an invalid generalization.</p>
<p>Anyway, there’s one major problem with your paragraph. You assume that Asian parents who emigrate to the United States come with limited knowledge of what schools are elite and what schools aren’t. That is, “they will only know of the ones at the very, very top such as Harvard, MIT, Yale, etc. that are relatively well known outside of the states.” I think that’s a fair assumption. Where you go wrong is assuming that Asian parents STAY IGNORANT about what’s top and what’s not. Do you honestly think that an Asian immigrant who’s been in the U.S. for over a decade hasn’t learned about the names of any new colleges since his arrival? My personal experience does not corroborate that one bit.</p>
<p>I never said there was no difference. You omitted part of my question.</p>
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If it is in fact true that “…so many Asian parents don't know excellent schools exist outside of [HYPSM],” then what’s the difference between “…little international prestige…” and “no-name”?
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<p>Let’s assume that it is true that so many Asian parents are clueless about what’s excellent and what’s not. (I highly, highly, highly doubt this. Whatever happened to the myth of the Asian parent who only considers the USNWR rankings?)</p>
<p>If this is the case, then to them, what’s the difference between “…little international prestige…” and “no-name”? There isn’t one. As you said, these two classifications have a commonality: they aren’t well known outside of the States. That’s all these ignorant parents care about. They’ve never heard of it, so it’s “no-name.”</p>
<p>"I never said there was no difference?" </p>
<p>People tend to focus on the top schools. </p>
<p>Anyways, once again Fabrizio -- I doubt he's talking about heritage when he's saying he doesn't consider himself Asian. He's talking about a stereotypical view enforced by some that he'd rather not have apply to him. He'd rather his cultural distinctions separate him from the all inclusive word "Asian" -- and be known as Filipino. </p>
<p>Literally, you're right. He's Asian. I don't think that's what he cares about though.</p>
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Anyways, once again Fabrizio -- I doubt he's talking about heritage when he's saying he doesn't consider himself Asian. He's talking about a stereotypical view enforced by some that he'd rather not have apply to him. He'd rather his cultural distinctions separate him from the all inclusive word "Asian" -- and be known as Filipino.
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<p>Just to clarify, when you said youve enforced , did you mean singular or plural you?</p>
<p>When I read post #499, I thought it was clear that not only does startraksfinest think hes not Asian (i.e. the stereotype), he also thinks hes not Asian (i.e. the geographic region.)</p>
<p>He said Someone earlier mentioned that its tough for Asians who went to UCR or another lower tier school to get a good job because they have to compete with the Asians at UCB, UCLA, etc. Was he referring to the stereotypical Asians, or Asians as a whole?</p>
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People tend to focus on the top schools.
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<p>And, both UPenn and Dartmouth are top schools. I find it very hard to believe that they aren’t well known among Asian parents. Seriously, whatever happened to those myths about the Asian parents who only consider the rankings? USNWR is pretty much “the” ranking. In 2008, UPenn ranked #5, and Dartmouth ranked #11.</p>
<p>Do some of you, not necessarily you, Bourne, honestly think that an ignorant Asian immigrant isn’t going to discover the existence of USNWR and subsequently find out that, “Hey! What’s this UPenn? Why is ranked higher than MIT?!?!?! Dartmouth? Ranked higher than BERKELEY?!?!?! The sky is falling down!!”</p>
<p>Whatever you may think about the rankings, that parent will obviously no longer be ignorant after he reads the issue.</p>
<p>How can you quote something I say and then ask me a question that has nothing to do with the quote -- I specifically say a view enforced by some??</p>
<p>It's not necessarily about remaining ignorant -- Why do so many people here know nothing about Rice? That's even with Hawkette posting about it quite frequently.</p>
<p>They only concentrate on the top schools and also there's a bit of regional bias. I'd doubt Asian parents in the NE would ignore those schools, but Asian parents in California?</p>
<p>My parents don't even understand -- not that there is any -- the "significance" of me going to the school I attend.</p>
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USNWR is pretty much “the” ranking. In 2008, UPenn ranked #5, and Dartmouth ranked #11.
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<p>Do you think anybody cares about college rankings until their child goes to college? Do people who aren't in college or don't have kids in college even look at USNWR? Do you think Asian parents with kids not even close to going to college frantically stalk CC to check out the latest USNEWS rankings? </p>
<p>It's difficult to change somebody's perceptions. What kind of exposure to prestigious colleges are these parents going to get to change their perceptions when their kids aren't even close to going to college? Most parents start to care about colleges and their prestige only when their kids start applying to colleges. This is why the views of Asian parents, that HYPSM are by far the best schools in the nation, go unchanged. When Asian kids begin applying to colleges, their parents still harbor an immigrant's view of prestige that have not changed much- that HYPSM are by far the best known schools in the country- since they have had little exposure to other colleges. After all, why should a person care about which colleges are prestigious if neither they nor their children have any intention of going to college in the near future?</p>