and it appears you would be incorrect.
The OP said he/she entered SMU with initial plans to major in marketing. The average starting salary for a person with a degree in marketing is, IIRC, around $60ish. Wisely, the OP rethought their career path and chose a major in finance, and was able to successfully garner a prized spot in the Alternative Asset Management Program, an honors program, in their JUNIOR year
This is not a direct admit program one starts in their freshman year. So, what some here are saying is that there IS significant risk taking out such a large loan, with the initial planned major the OP considered. It may make reasoned sense and be a reasonable calculated risk when the major is a potentially more high paying one and the applicant had secured a position in a prestigious program from the outset, but that did not seem to be the case here, and IMO that is what the ânaysayersâ are saying about the concern for suggesting to the average SMU applicant that taking out such big loans is prudent. Because in many, perhaps most cases, it isnât.
As for trying to live off Short/long term disability ( STD or LTD), if one does get these benefits from their employer or through a private policy, they typically require lots of documentation to get/maintain and maybe pay half of the personâs full salary. After a certain period of time many policies require the applicant to apply for SSDI (social security disability) and to go on Medicare. That might put a dent in paying off large school loans.
@jym626: You are incorrect on almost every point in your above post.
First, you tend to focus on negatives. Not a reasonable or healthy way to live life from my viewpoint. Your disability income gripe is misplaced in this thread, but nevertheless unreasonably negative.
The OP made clear in the posts above that the special program was for the development of those seeking other types of more lucrative positions, not for financial consulting.
Your âno direct admits to the AAMC groupâ is not relevant to this discussion as OP did not pursue an IB or similar typeâand much more lucrativeâposition.
P.S. If OP had stayed with marketing, he would have access to the same SMU placement office for the business school. And he might have considered the high demand career of data analytics/business data analysis which is a marketing discipline/function in such high demand that at least one major national employer has created their own specialty masters at major universities for which everything is paid with assured lucrative placement after completion of the one year program.
Sorry, @publisher but you are wrong on many/most counts not worth discussing here. Everything said is relevant, but attacking because your are angry that you are clearly wrong is unhelpful to the discussion. No I am not negative, in fact quite the opposite. But, I am practical. There is a HUGE difference. Those rose colored glasses are fine for you. Enjoy them.
You said the poster was a direct admit and that why they took out huge loans. Wrong. You said the discussion about STD/LTD was not relevant , but YOU were the one who brought it up. Wow, apparently these posts touched a sore spot/hit a nerve with you.
OP was a direct admit to the business program at SMU.
STD & LTD are available at group rates to OP & to those in similar firms. This is not a thread about the nuances of disability plans.
Not a sore spot with me at all as I enjoy well reasoned debate & hearing different points of view. Yours is understood & respected regarding concern about student loan amounts.
P.S. Just to be clear, both marketing & finance are majors in the business school at SMU as well as at most business schools in the US.
As a Georgia resident you may be thinking of UGAâs renowned marketing program. But even that is in the Terry business school at UGA.
You apparently edited your post, @publisher, to bring up something that, to use your words, is âmisplacedâ / ânot relevantâ here. Whether some national employer created a specialty masters is not relevant since that is not the OPâs major and they indicated they did not wish to have to pursue a masters.
TBH, having side discussions is interesting and helpful, so trying to claim that they are "misplaced/irrelevant (per your comments above) - who is the negative one?
Not upset. Just donât appreciate being attacked. How about not doing that. If you are going to bring something up in a conversation, donât chastise someone for responding to it.
Sorry you misunderstand the tone of your posts. Your assumptions are off base. I was making a point by responding to you the way you responded to me. Apparently that got missed. Moving on.
@Sue22 Valid points. 4 years of recruitment and I am very aware of the lifestyle (as well as exit opportunities) of the MC job.
@austinmshauri I agree I could have worded the first post a bit differently but still think this will be a helpful thread to those considering loans or going to school here. I think the major concerns surrounding the loans have been addressed to my best ability and hope lurkers will read through it all.
@Mwfan1921 I agree, and I think where people especially/garaunteed get themselves into trouble is when they do not treat their education as an investment and do not do their due dilligence. And interesting that you mentioned, I remember the 2009 crash well and my parents lost a lot on their house during this time. Definitely had an impact.
The title of this thread made me so nervous because my older sister probably could have made this thread when she got her JD right as the economy crashed in 2008. This made getting a job close to impossible for a few years, let alone the high paying one she was all but promised before law school.
10 years later, itâs the interest that really got her. Sheâs nowhere close to paying off her loans now despite paying around 3-5k per month.
Of course, apples to oranges in terms of fields and I hope weâre not close to another such economic downturnâŠ
Good luck to you OP. You sound like a real self-starter who took a huge risk but made use of what you had.
@momprof9904 âI am interested in hearing more about the program in SMU. Are the recruiters primarily from the Texas region? Did you feel that smaller size of SMU (opposed to A&M or UT) was helpful for you?â
I felt like there were ample opportunities represented by recruiters out of state. When I think about where my friends whoâve taken jobs have gone, it seems like 25% left Texas. With so many big companies recruiting here, a lot had their eye on filling empty positions in all areas/regions. I have friends of all majors now working in Atlanta, NY, Chicago, CA, and across Texas.
Really liked SMUâs size and was a major selling point. I toured schools of all sizes to see what felt best to me. This is of course up to preference to Iâd recommend having S/D do the same. I also knew from my HS background I do well in environments with more individualized attention. Because there werenât thousands of students clamoring over career center and Office Hour appointments, I was able to generate meaningful relationships with career advisors and professors, which only helped bolster my career search, opened me up to more involvement opportunities (âI know that student, heâd do a great job.â), and helped from a learning standpoint.
@OhWhatsHerName: Good point in referring to the two situations as âapples to oranges in terms of fieldsâ when discussing a law degree and a business degree in finance.
Law degrees are rarely useful for anything beyond the practice of law. And some employers donât want to hire lawyers for other positions for fear of exposing themselves to potential litigation.
A business degree is a much more flexible degree with respect to employment. A business degree with a specialization or two, such as finance & accounting, tend to increase opportunities rather than to limit them in contrast to a law degreeâs effect on employment opportunities.
@jym626 âwhen did you change from your initial plan to pursue a marketing degree to planning to pursue finance and apply (successfully) for the prestigious Alternative Asset Management program? What made you change your mind?â
I changed my mind a few weeks in. I decided from there I wanted to do finance or accounting and flipped back and forth for a while longer. 1) For one thing, I was well aware of my loans and it seemed like the salaries in these jobs were consistently higher than for other majors. 2) It also seemed like I could always pursue many of the marketing jobs with a finance/accounting degree and some personal experience, but more difficult the other way around. 3) Some of my most driven classmates/ones I got along with in the B School (from my experience) always seemed to be either accounting or finance majors. I was drawn to their motivation for whatever reason and wanted to surround myself by them. 4) Many of the early (freshman) internship opportunities seemed to be for finance or accounting majors, so I figured I could always switch back to marketing if I didnât like it but grab the internships and experience and figure out what Iâm really interested in the meantime. 5) I knew a lot more about marketing going in so I chose what I was more familiar with. Once I learned finance didnât have to be all numbers (bleh), I switched.
Lastly, my parents always had told me to keep my options open and never close doors until youâre ready. Marketing seemed to close off some opportunities like all those internships in finance/accounting so I changed. That being said, plenty of marketing opportunities on campus as well, just for the good ones thereâs less of early on.
Traditionally, a concentration or major in marketing was thought of as an easier major than finance or accounting until the recent advent of data analytics and its application to marketing. But, still remains the same for programs in which data analytics is broken off as a graduate degree or as an undergraduate degree in business data analysis. If one could double major, or major & minor, in marketing & business data analysis, many employment opportunities will arise as opposed to just having a marketing degree.
@OhWhatsHerName Thank you! Economy crashing definitely is a risk, especially since predicting 4 years out is almost impossible. I remember well during Freshman year, someone from one of the accounting firms (which seemed to me like one of the most hire-happy and fortress industries at SMU) told me that they had froze, and even laid off people during the downturn. This shocked me that even outcomes from such a seemingly lucrative and safe major could be impacted by a hit to the economy. Another reason to make sure not to borrow more than you can handle and if you are taking on much financial burden, pick a field that will bounce back quick after a crash if possible.
In terms of other things you can do to protect yourself: Top candidates will have less difficulty finding a job no matter what. So make sure youâre doing the right things on campus. Any internships that one can get early on that will lead to jobs will help mitigate the risk. Also, I was once told it is the senior people making the big $$$ that get cut first at the big companies during a crash. One investment banking MDâs salary can pay for the salaries of 5+ analysts. That also served as somewhat of a relief to me and maybe to others reading this too.
@FinalYear Based off of the students that entered into the Alt. Assets Management Programwith you, how hard is it to get into (I have read the requirements on the SMU website)? Also, can you be an incoming Sophmore or Junior and get into the program?
Remember way back when the Big 4 was the Big 8? Oh yeah, not that long ago. What do you think happened to all those jobs?
Two of my 60+ year old friends just had their jobs eliminated as IT guys at non-IT companies (one a law firm, one an oil company). Whatâs happening? Companies are going to running âmean and leanâ again, just like in 2008. When they start weeding, it is the old and the inexperienced that go first. I worked at a law firm in 2008 and it wasnât the partners who took a cut in pay, it was the associates and a lot of the support staff who were gone. The partners worked the work that was available rather than having 3 associates do the work and taking the partnerâs cut (while partners were out looking for more clients). They learned to use their own computers and input their own billing. Some of the IT stuff was centralized and done remotely.
Itâs happening again.
I get it. OP wanted to take the risk and thatâs fine for him. However, the title of this thread is âI took $120k in loans, and I think it is working out so ask me how to do it.â Really, I think he needs to actually make a dent in the $120k before he advises others to do it.
I remember one year when the economy turned down, and the prestigious consulting firm I worked for cut hiring to about a quarter of its previous amounts for a couple of years. You wouldnât want to be coming out of school with that debtload in those years.
Also, getting those jobs and performing well in them are two different things. I saw some arrogant young (happen to be male) associates flame out and be âcounseled outâ less than a year into their employment. They were known as PUREs (previously undetected recruiting errors). Theyâd have been just as confident as the OP that this wouldnât happen to them. And then it did.