Asking for another....What are the best reasons to avoid a Caribbean Med School.....

Yes, I know…"the match rate does not tell the full story, that many of their students find residencies outside the process, by going to hospitals directly. John R. Boulet, a co-author of both studies and a researcher at the Foundation for Advancement of International Medical Education and Research, said that more than 90 percent of American graduates of foreign medical schools who have passed the requisite tests find a residency position. “Through persistence they eventually get in,” he said.
"http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/education/edlife/second-chance-med-school.html?_r=0

Scrambling is no longer part of the residency process. SOAP has replaced it and favors American schools by giving programs the ability to see all the remaining applicants before giving more offers.

Simply put, >90% of DO applicants will never have to face all these hurdles. There’s no evidence (not funded by Caribbean schools) to support it as a worthwhile option compared to DO at this point. There was a point in time when Caribbean was better but that time is history.

All things being equal, residency programs will typically select an MD over a DO. An MD from Caribbean school with higher scores will be chosen over a DO any time.

The match process changed in 2014. Residency programs were required to be “all in”–that is they either had to offer all their residency slots in all specialties through the NRMP or none at all. Prior to 2014, residency programs were allow to hold ‘reserved’ slots they offered privately, often to Caribbean grads who paid to rotate through their departments. This is no longer allowed.

In 2014, 95% of allopathic med students matched, 77% of DOs who applied thru the NRMP to allopathic program matched while just 53% of Caribbean grads matched.

https://natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/AACOM-NMS-Apr4-14.pdf
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

This suggests that allopathic residency program directors won’t select “an MD from Caribbean school with higher scores…over a DO any time.”

"
In 2014, 95% of allopathic med students matched, 77% of DOs who applied thru the NRMP to allopathic program matched while just 53% of Caribbean grads matched."

I think it suggests the quality of students attending each program. Sounds about right…

Don’t forget that 77% only represents the DOs who chose not to or who failed to match to an AACOM program. The foreign MD numbers don’t have an alternate American program. I don’t think DO students are so demonstrably stronger going in that that accounts for the difference.

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There was no info provided about this student MCAT scores or GPA.
I suspect that this student had a low MCAT or low GPA, or both
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@Lanaana Why would you suspect that? I clearly stated that the student has “med school quality stats.” I didn’t list the exact stats because it’s not my place to do so, but my statement about “med school quality stats” OBVIOUSLY means that the student does NOT have a low MCAT or low GPA…and certainly not both!

and I have no idea what your “can’t be late for med school,” comment means…

I only said it because normally students who are lucky to have med school quality stats go to med school here in the US. I’ve never heard of anyone who is qualified for the US med school electing to go to Caribbean school. It’s just silly. This is why I said you " can’t be late for med school" . I meant that if you are quilified and have great scores, but missed this round , you can wait and go later.

It would be in this student’s best interest to wait until the summer of 2016 to reapply.

The fact of the matter is that there are systemic barriers to IMG’s and many, many residencies simply reject IMG’s without even looking at their application. Even if they do look at the application, they impose much higher requirements on the IMG’s to be considered. For example my pediatrics residency was pretty lenient in at least looking at applications (by this I mean, they would at least consider offering an interview, and not just throw the application in the trash). US grads could have failed Step 1 and had pretty poor Step 1 scores upon retaking but still invite consideration and yet they expect a minimum score of 220 for IMG’s. A US grad does not need to have taken Step 2 prior to interviewing, whereas the IMG needs to have completed and passed when they apply. The IMG match rate is not simply a measure of the applicant, there are huge system wide biases against any and all IMG’s.

Ahh, yes. I 100% agree with that.

I absolutely have recommended that the student reapply. I think the student (and parents) may be too trusting of this “family friend” who is now attending. Maybe they’re hearing “we have great professors, we have awesome facilities, we can provide lists of our students who are currently in US residencies” so they think that means: “on par with US MD schools.”

when I wrote: “another parent whose child applied very late in the app cycle (didn’t know better), has med school quality stats, but because of the lateness, didn’t receive any IIs,” obviously I was talking about the apps being submitted too late this current cycle. I didn’t mean too late in life.

…This student can actually benefit greatly by not going through this current cycle and doing research for a year. Even students who had not done well on the MCAT or had less than desirable GPA get chosen. Research is highly valued at top-tier schools. Without a research background, some applicants will be screened out of interviews, even though they have good grades and a solid MCAT score. One of my relatives did pre-med at Berkeley and received ok grades. Did not get accepted into any med schools. He then was able to get a research opportunity at Drexel and was accepted into top-tier med school a year later.

FWIW my D’s undergrad STRONGLY recommends a year between college and med school,and the majority of kids there do wait a year and volunteer, do research or in some other way add to their med resume.

I hear that, but when students are applying during the summer after graduation, anything they list for that coming year is somewhat speculative. And if the student is interviewed in early fall, again, the student will not have done much.

^correct. The purpose of a gap year isn’t really to get the gap year stuff on the app. It’s to get senior year on the app.

^^^
I agree. I think there are a number of premeds who had a rough start as frosh, didn’t give up, but need another year’s worth of top grades to dilute the damage. And, they can include what they did senior year, volunteer, research or project-wise, on their apps.

I can’t imagine that Adcoms are impressed by apps filled out in the summer that say, “I’m gonna do…”

I defer to you parents with med school/MD kids on timing. The med school app process is “normally” done the summer between junior and senior year? If so, a year deferral means apps in the summer after senior year, right?

Couldn’t the student already knows his/her plans and even have begun them? My kid is hustling right now for new plans because her summer internship was canceled due to violence in the country where she was supposed to work. She got that internship in the fall, thought she was set. Now will have to wait until maybe April to know for sure what new things he may earn. Isn’t it typical to establish internship/research/volunteer plans well before the summer after graduation?

Or do I have this timing all wrong?

Med school applications for those going straight from undergrad to med school happen in the summer between juno and senior year because the application process itself takes almost a full year to complete. However at least 1/3 to 1/2 of med school applicants now take 1-2 gap years.

It is typical to have plans established well before graduation. (D2 started her job search in March of her senior year and had a signed contract for a full time post-graduation clinical research position by the end of the month.) But that doesn’t mean the anticipated activity is going to hold the same weight for adcomms as other already completed or long-time in-progress activities simply because there is no guarantee the applicant will actually go through with the plans. (Plans change all the time. Contracts get broken.) Newly started activities also aren’t given a lot of weight because the applicant hasn’t yet had enough experience with the job/activity/situation to be able to speak objectively and critically about it and what they’ve learned from it.

@OHMomof2 you’re not “wrong.” Proposed activities and accomplishments are not meaningless, but things that have actually been done/achieved will always mean more than things that are proposed. Hence the real benefit of delaying is that you have senior year grades and activities officially on the record vs. getting to talk hypothetically about all the experiences you will have in the coming year.

I think the bigger concern on the adcom side is that the plans end up not being as impressive as the applicant thought. Research position with hot shot professor could very well end up being a total dud of an experience. Job title at company could sound more prestigious than the position actually is, volunteering at nursing home or hospital involves just fetching coffee for higher ups, etc.

Helpful, thank you both.