The GC for my friend’s daughter (attending a top private school) said that if ivy x was really his D’s first pick, they’d make a call and push the application. The GC went on to say that they place 1-2 people at the school every year and it’s usually based on the recommendation of the guidance office. His D is attending the school this year. In the end, the GC used some sort of preference system to recommend my friend’s D over other applicants from the school.
My D attends a top public school. The GCs don’t have relationships/contacts at any schools and don’t know the kids. ( In fact, last year an admissions officer from an ivy visited our school, parked in the wrong place and received a parking ticket My D, if not accepted to her ED choice. will have 3-4 apps to schools at whcih none of her classmates are applying. I’m wondering if my D should proactively meet with her GC, tell her why these schools are great fit, and ask the GC to make the case on her behalf.
According to friends in the field, the trend is moving away from guidance counselors even writing letters of recommendation for students in those schools where their caseload is so heavy. If a guidance counselor does not know the student, it is inadvisable for them to call an admission office and speak on their behalf, they would have nothing of value to add. This is the start of admission season, college admission counselors are reading thousands of applications. The time for guidance counselors to develop a relationship with colleges is during travel season. This is why it is so important for the student to visit, call, attend college fairs and develop an individual relationship with the admission counselors. Students can also check the college admission travel schedule and request their HS make contact and invite the reps to the school.
If your daughter attends a top public HS, I would be surprised that they don’t have relationships with a number of colleges and universities. Did you check Naviance to see where the students are admitted?
At my children’s school the CC will only call the admissions office to one school with a recommendation if there is a prior relationship with the office. If the child is wait listed the CC will call to push the application to the top choice school only.
From naviance we have a great sense of where kids are being admitted but GCs have consistently told our community they don’t have any relationships in admissions offices. Our guidance office, pushed by the community, is trying to do a better job with this but there isn’t a real roadmap or strategy in place (other than reserve a visitor’s parking spot) to improve placement. I asked my D’s gc if she had a sense why u mich’s acceptance rate from our school fell from 50% to 8% over the last two years. Not only did she not have an answer, she wasn’t aware of the downward trend.
when my son was applying ed, the admissions office called our gc for 1q grades and the gc did make the case for him at that time. But it was a one-off, unplanned event and my S can charm anyone in 5 minutes.
the gc does have some sense of my D but clearly my friend’s gc (i should say college counselor, the private school had seperate gcs and ccs), had spent about 8 hours with his D. The point about not really knowing my D and therefore not being able to advocate on her behalf is a good one.
If you GC doesn’t have a relationship with the admissions office and doesn’t know your child well, then I would not ask him/her to call – it would likely have no meaningful impact and it could come off as more desperate than anything else. Put forth the strongest application possible and let it go.
@quietdesperation , Private school GC’s tend to have relationships with the admissions officers at the selective colleges, but they also tend to have far fewer students for whom they are responsible. Public HS GC’s tend to be much overloaded with many more students, and their responsibilities tend to also include different sets of challenges - like truancy, teen pregnancy, severe discipline issues, learning disabilities, etc - not as commonly found with private schools.
Colleges - even top colleges - are well aware of this, and how much of it varies depending on the part of the state/country, etc., so their expectations as to what a public school GC might offer on behalf of a student are much more realistic.
That being said, I am in support of any student who proactively meets with his/her public school GC to discuss their future college plan options, and encouraging the GC to follow-up, where appropriate, with the admissions officers and even FA offices at their potential top school choices. When the student /family can partner with the GC to better understand the paths and challenges, make appropriate decisions, they will achieve the common goal. These are the success stories that help make the GC’s already tough jobs much better, and the experience the public school GC gains will be helpful to other students down the road.
I would equate having the GC pick up the phone and calling the college to the Project Runway Tim Gunn save :)] .
I am more likely be used if a student is wait listed, to move that student to the admit pile vs using it to get a kid in school, a student on the bubble and probably a student who is on the brink of been shut out in the college process.
This would be especially true, if I knew the kid extremely well , new the student was a good fit and know that if admitted they would attend. Even if I knew the kid extremely well, it does not mean that I will pick up the phone and call on the behalf of all of my kids.
I definitely will not pick up the phone to call unless I know unequivocally that if the kid is accepted they will attend. Because while you look at it as your child, this year, I will have a new group of kids next year and I don’t want to burn a business relationship (especially a good business relationship). Keep in mind that GC relationships with A/O’s are the equivalent to any business relationship that you may have. Yes, I have been burned early in my career making calls for kids who ended up not attending.
What criteria would you use to pick up the phone to recommend a person for a position in your company or place a call to a person where you have a connection?
Our GC has made calls for kids on waiting lists, but I don’t think they have the time or know most of their students well enough to do more. But I agree with 3puppies it doesn’t hurt to get to know your GC better. My older son lucked out - he’s Mr. Anti-Social, but his GC was new to the school when he was a sophomore and he was able to help her figure out how to get him a better schedule. (The computer had spit out something with only 3 courses!) She was very grateful and then his PSAT score caused her to sit up and take notice of him.
I have a cousin who is a GC at a private school - since he and his wife worked in admissions at Harvard (and were undergrad and later grad students there) and lived in the Harvard dorms as tutors of course they have a relationship with Harvard that most public GCs can’t provide.
In our public HS, the GCs have relationships with admissions offices at a wide range of schools. For some of the top schools, the head of guidance personally recommends the students who he thinks would do well there. In addition, he selects one or two for personal meetings with admission reps when they visit. Getting that endorsement greatly boosts the applicant’s chances. Some of these colleges have really come to rely on the GC, and he doesn’t disappoint with his picks.
The special relationship that college counselors at fancy private schools have in the admissions game is well known. The admissions officers at the top schools have built up relationships with many of these counselors over many years.
In cases where the student is on the bubble, admissions officers will call a guidance counselor they know well without hesitation. However having a guidance counselor call someone they don’t know at all probably won’t have any impact.
If you want to get an idea of how this works, read “Creating a Class” by Mitchell Stevens
My kid’s GC knew which schools she was accepted to and which ones she didn’t before the notification date. She told me they had conference calls with many college adcoms to go over the applicants prior to the decision day. They were each assigned to talk to X number of adcoms. I got the sense they discussed who would attend if admitted, and additional color about each applicant.
If you look at some of those private schools’ college admission stats, you’ll see there are definitely some favorite colleges their students tend to apply to, especially with some less known colleges, and it is often due to the GCs pushing of those colleges. Most of us think the colleges hold the cards when it comes to college admission, but it works both ways. A southern school may want more NE students, so they would wine and dine some GCs when they are visiting high schools to ask the GCs to recommend their school to the students. In exchange, the school may admit some students as a favor.
A bit off topic, but the main answer is how increasingly competitive Michigan is and how significant yield is to U-M. Our son’s top tier high school is well known to U-M and presents quality candidates but, too often, those applicants are using Michigan as a backstop for other schools and Michigan won’t play that game. Naviance for 2008-2014 looked like this:
There have been too many zero/low-enrollment years. In 2014, Michigan was generous with Admits, but got burned on enrollments; this history made it tough for our son’s class of 2015. His GC told him that there is no love lost between U-M and his HS and that if he really wanted to attend, he’d have to commit to the First Choice list (Mich doesn’t do ED) and write a burning letter of desire to the U-M reader for his school indicating that if he were accepted, he would definitely attend. If he could convince his GC that Michigan really was his first choice, she would go to bat for him; otherwise, he shouldn’t even apply.
People always advise the kids spend more time with their guidance counselors and get to know them but I’m hesitant to have my kid be a pest when I know the guidance counselor has hundreds and hundreds of kids that he has to deal with.
I had a conversation with one of my D’s teacher’s (a personal acquaintance) at our public and she led me to believe that the school may coordinate the writing of strong recommendations for its strongest candidates. She wasn’t explicit but I got the impression it might work like this: “candidate x has very high gpa and standardized test scores, strong ECs and has a great chance for admission to a top school. Please make sure you write a very strong recommendation.”
I’m going to ask a close friend at another public if that goes on where he teaches.
Of course they pull for their best students. And many GCs, even the busy ones, get teacher feedback. But the GC needs to know more than just the bones, that Susie has these stats, is in these clubs, and the teachers say xxx. You can still make sure she at least knows more about your son or daughter, as a person.
I’d focus more on the quality of the letter your D does get.
My D, if not accepted to her ED choice. will have 3-4 apps to schools at whcih none of her classmates are applying. I’m wondering if my D should proactively meet with her GC, tell her why these schools are great fit, and ask the GC to make the case on her behalf.