I don’t recall @intparent ever saying that the guy is stupid, a “horrid monster,” or that he should be expelled, but imo the student’s behavior was clearly sexist. It seems your comment above is quite sarcastic, and it’s beyond me how any reasonable person would not find his behavior extremely inappropriate. The “sweetheart” crap was not an endearment, it was his way of belittling her for having the audacity to be a female in the world of physics. Continuing to use that word after being asked to stop was his way of escalating the insults, and raising his voice and yelling was beyond the pale.
Can we please move on?
The yelling was inappropriate…extreme is difficult to ascertain. Yelling in and of itself in my opinion would only be extreme if there was physicality or the potential of that. Desk pounding would be extreme. Waving arms or moving in an agitated way would be extreme. People loose it sometimes for lots of reasons. Calling someone sweetheart is either condescending or habit and can be handled or ignored or elevated. Every individual picks their own battles in the real word.
So –
Speaking of assault and harassment, how about these new allegations about Trump and the playmate and the National Enquirer?
One of the things young men should learn at college is appropriate behavior in professional settings. Allowing this kind of disrespectful and (it sounds like) menacing behavior to continue because the guy was having a bad day, or for any other reason, is right out. I’m glad to hear that the TA has done the right thing and the professor is backing her.
Sure she might have been in the wrong place at the wrong time and on the receiving end of a stressed out person but now if he is intimidating to someone else he is on record.
After reading the updates, the anger and yelling are more of a concern than the sweetheart comment. Not that that isn’t bad. But if his behavior was extreme enough for the TA to start checking where the exits were, that’s a safety concern and goes to a whole other level.
For that particular person…she perceived it as a safety concern which is fine. People react differently to different situations and react according to their perceptions and feelings. It is not implausible to think that 3 different women would have handled and reacted in 3 different ways. I don’t know who said his behavior was extreme whether that was her, her mom or another poster.
Kind of surprised how little I’ve seen about it, beyond the very long article I read. Same day as the Russia indictments and soon after the school shooting. Plus i honestly don’t think most people find it shocking anymore. It’s just another affair while he was married, and payoff to keep her quiet.
The “catch and kill” concept was new to me…
I must say, as a first year faculty member coming off a number of years as a TA, I think there are very, very, few female TAs who would be totally fine with a male student calling them “sweetheart.” Obviously, there would be a range of responses, but it is pretty unambiguously inappropriate behavior. You don’t have to be frightened or traumatized by something to find it unacceptable and think it needs to be dealt with in some way. Personally, while I wouldn’t be calling for the student’s head on a platter, I’d either convey to myself or want it conveyed to him in clear terms that this was not OK and that he needed to treat me with respect.
I’m surprised that this situation has generated so much controversy.
Part of it could be the context. Sweetheart in a professional setting does come across as condescending. The person using that term should have complied with not using that word again when put on notice.
I was at lunch yesterday and a much younger male server brought me my chili and said, " here you go, dear" when he set it in front of me . I was not offended at all, was tired , by myself, and it was actually pleasant to have someone call me dear (whether male or female ) , but can imagine some might be offended. Hoda and Kathie Lee routinely call guests, both male and female, honey , hon, sweetheart. It would probably be a hard habit to break if they were told they absolutely had to.
Different context.
@VeryHappy That is what I said!
I am not surprised the professor is backing her - most men I know would do the same. The vast majority of men I know have wives or daughters in the workforce. They don’t want them having to confront this sort of nonsense.
I find the same is true with the more serious scenarios that have surfaced in the last few months. To the vast majority of men this sort of behavior is inconceivable and I think they feel an obligation to help women sort it out. My current project is with a major financial services company in downtown Manhattan. Their employee dining room has large TV screens mounted on the walls with news stations broadcasting throughout the work day. I was sitting in the dining room when the picture of Colbie Holderness with a blackened eye was broadcast. While the women in the room seemed stunned by the image the men had a very visceral reaction and didn’t hold back with their comments. As one would expect absolutely no one tried to rationalize or excuse this sort of thing.
I think we are on the right track with the exposure of all that has been swept under the rug. I also think we have more support than we realize.
Actually – I think it is a little more nuanced than that. The prof came out much more strongly in support of her AFTER he (prof is male) talked to the female head of the department about the situation. But he did, and that is what matters.
There are posters who would take the rapist’s side if it happened in the middle of 5th Avenue with TV cameras running. Go back and look at old threads on these types of topics, and you will see patterns. They ALWAYS challenge the woman’s story and try to cast doubt on it.
I had a harasser at work about 15 years ago. He sent me inappropriate emails (declaring his love for me) and finally had an extremely angry outburst directed at me in the office we shared with one other person. ‘Angry outburst’ doesn’t do it justice. It’s hard for me to describe the fear I felt at that moment as our office was an enclosed space and he was in front of the door leaving me no way out. He was out of control and out of his mind.
He left the building. I and my other office mate were worried he would return with a gun. I immediately spoke to my manager and also forwarded to him one of the emails the harasser wrote to me. My manager was a very nice guy in his late 50’s with professional daughters of his own. I would describe his response as nonchalant. Caring, but not as impressed as I thought he should have been.
Late that evening, my manager called me at home to tell me he would take care of things. And he did. I assume he went home and told his wife about it, and she urged him to do something about it. Or he called someone from HR. Or he just needed time to think about it. It was interesting to me that he was not immediately able to see how bad this situation was. It took time to process in some way.
So, while most men would back a woman with a similar complaint, it might take time or a few conversations to get there.
I would recommend watching the second round table Oprah had in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I think what stood out most for me is that the group touched on the fact that people don’t want to listen to each other…that people develop a “you are for it or against it” mentality. I think some very good points were made and we can learn a lot from these 14 people.
Also posted on the Olympics thread -
a Russian hockey player spent 2 months in US jail and lost his NHL contract from a bloody and extremely violent domestic abuse case. He is now playing for the OAR hockey team. The Russian are asking for the press to stop reporting on it and to respect his privacy. As is all too common, the couple remain together, despite him having choked her which is a huge indicator of future abuse and too often murder.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-olympics-voynov-assault-20180219-story.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/slava-voynov-competing-pyeongchang-despite-past-domestic-violence-061241384.html
One of the NBC game commentator called the abuse “an unfortunate incident” and complimented him for being a “special player” that left a huge void in the LA team.
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/a18218957/olympics-hockey-slava-voynov-domestic-abuse-commentator/
From one of the above-linked articles:
Terrifying.
The sports covering media glorifying a thug… look at him - a hero. Just like some of those NFL players that got off the hook easily…