<p>Only considering grants and scholarships, Syracuse would be 6000 more than SUNY at Buffalo.
I will be going for bioengineering and would prefer going to Syracuse if I don't get into my top schools. Would taking on that extra debt be worth the benefits of attending SU over uB?</p>
<p>On a side note, to cover money that is not covered by loans in the financial aids packages, do I have to take out loans at banks? What are my options there?</p>
<p>Don’t take out bank loans. If the federally-backed loans in your financial aid package aren’t sufficient to meet costs, then you can’t afford the college. But $6000 isn’t a huge number – consider how much you can economize to reduce COA; what you can earn; and whether you can apply for outside private scholarship.</p>
<p>There is no magic number since it depends largely on the student’s family support structure. If your parents are will and able to help you with your loan burden after you finish college, that can make a huge difference. Where I get nervous is when kids take out large loans (usually with parent co signing it) and the family finances are such that the chances of them being able to help the kid repay is zilch. That is, by the way, how most student get loans in addition to the Staffords. Since the Staffords (and Perkins) are pretty much all that a student can take without co signer, that pretty much represents the maximum kids should be taking without expectation of help in repayment. Even the Staffords can add up to a large amount, especially if the parents do not qualify for PLUS and extra money is given to the student alone. </p>
<p>What are your total loan burdens at UB and at Syracuse? Does it mean that you will be borrowing $6K a year more to go to Syracuse on top of the Stafford loan amount? That means that you will be owing more than $65 at graduation. That’s alot of money to owe. If you decide to go to medical school and continue to borrow, the debt would truly be overwhelming. Figure out what the monthly tab will be for loans of that size for how many years.</p>
<p>Are you saying that both schools already include $5500 in student loans in your FA package and for you to go to SU, you would have to borrow another $6k?</p>
<p>If so, you’d be borrowing over $10k per year. That’s a bit much. You could do a Sallie Mae loan for the rest, but either way, you’re going to need co-signers for that extra debt. Will your parents do that? </p>
<p>Since you’re bio-engineering…does that mean that you’re pre-med? if so, that’s wayyy too much debt. What are your career plans?</p>
<p>SU includes 7500 in loans. buffalo has 5000 in their package. With their entire financial aid packages accounted for I would be in debt 10500 at SU and 9200 at UB.</p>
<p>Syracuse would be my preferred choice. If you don’t suggest taking out bank loans, then how can i cover the debt? </p>
<p>I don’t know yet if I want to do pre-med. </p>
<p>I feel like it’s not going to get much cheaper than these two unless I get into Dartmouth (god willing) and they give me unreal amounts of aid. I don’t know how good aid is at Johns Hopkins or Boston University is. I have not been accepted to the last three schools yet and should hear from them in the next couple weeks. </p>
<p>My scenario is if I don’t get into Dartmouth/JHU (unfortunately the odds are against me) and BU doesn’t give me enough (I think I have a decent shot of getting in).</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for the help so far.</p>
<p>Between $10,500 and $9200, there’s not much difference – the question is whether SU is worth $1300 more of debt, and that amount is negligible -so yes, go to Syracuse in that situation.</p>
<p>But look to shave down the COA in other ways. Do you have a job now? What are you earning? Do you have a job lined up for the summer? The COA presumes a certain cost for housing – does the college offer a cheaper alternative? For example, can you save $1500 over the course of a year by opting for a triple or a less desirable dorm? (Some college have differential room fees, others don’t – some are more flexible about meal plans than others). </p>
<p>The problem with bank loans is that you usually can’t get them without co-signer; they charge higher interest and interest starts running right away, so if you can’t afford to make payments you end up owing a lot more than you borrowed by the time you graduate; they can’t be discharged in bankruptcy; and there are no programs in place that would help you out in the even that you aren’t earning enough after graduation to make your payments. </p>
<p>The federally backed loans might be inconvenient but they probably won’t bury you, because there are various ways that payments can be adjusted or deferred depending on your income situation.</p>
<p>I do have a job right now and I’m applying for scholarships. Are there any private institutions that offer flexible student loans?</p>
<p>I can not reconcile your first post (6K difference) with the later post 1.3 difference. could you amplify?</p>
<p>Calmom, I am pretty certain that NO student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy. That had been the rule for a long time for federal loans, which to me is fair, they have no co-signer, and they have provisions to help people deal with them. The absolute disgrace is how the banks lobbied in 2005 to get PRIVATE loans non-dischargeable.</p>
<p>Like Kayf, I can’t reconcile the differences you are giving. If the difference is indeed only $1320 between the two school, that is one thing, but that is not what I was getting from your original post. How much in loans will you have to take to go to Buffalo and how much will you have to take to go to Syracuse? Is the amount for one year or for all 4 years?</p>
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<p>Mom2collegekids, I am always interested in what you have to say about any subject, I have a question, why do you think a total of 40,000 debt would be to much for pre Med? My son will be a Pre Med student and I am interested to know your view on this.</p>
<p>Not pre-med but as the parent of a law school student, I will toss in my $.02.</p>
<p>The first part of financial aid for professional school is in the form of loans. As a graduate/professional student, your child will be able to borrow $20k in as a combination of subsidized and unsubsidized stafford loans each year they are in school.</p>
<p>The CAP of stafford loans for grad/professional students is $138,500. The CAP for med students is $224,000. This amount is reduced my the amount of stafford loan debt you took on as an undergrad. For example; your son has maxed out his stafford loans during undergran. He has 27,000 in undergrad stafford loan debt. He can borrow 40k a year in stafford loans for med school (which just puts a dent in the cost of med school per year). Your son will have $189,000 of debt in stafford loans alone (not counting other loans he may need for med school).</p>
<p>Until recently (within the last 2/3 years) students really needed to be careful in managing their debt if they wanted to go to professional school because one’s credit worthiness could be used as the basis for acceptance . (Penn law used to state in their application, that they would not admit you if you were not in a position to secure loans over the stafford loan limit). A student who borrows the full cost of attendance to attend law school is easly going to have $200k in law school debt alone after 3 years. A student attending med school will easily have $300k in med school debt alone.</p>
<p>In addition, because it was very likely that one was going to have to borrow for grad school, they wanted to have minimal undergrad debt so they could be in a better position to borrow the money they needed for grad school (without needing a cosigner).</p>
<p>The financial aid structure for law/med school is different than it is for undergrad. While the student is independent for FAFSA purposes having completed their first bachelors, if the student is under 27 and at some schools 30 years old the income and assets of the student, their parents and spouse (if married) will be used to assess thier eligibility for need based aid. So the parent who bit the bullet for 4 years of undergrad could still to be on the hook for a parent contribution if their child goes to med/law school.</p>
<p>Now grad & professional students can borrow the entire cost of their grad/law/med school through GradPlus loans from the federal government in their own name without a co-signer. There is not a big risk to the federal government because the loans cannot be dischargeable in bankruptcy, so they are going to be repaid. While credit worthiness, is not an issue like it was a couple of years ago,having a large amount of undergrad debt coupled with a large amount of professional school debt can seriously affect the lifestyle of a young doctor/lawyer (a young lawyer moreso because of the oversaturation of lawyers in the work place) when it comes to things likel getting married, purchasing a home, having kids, etc. With this in mind, the conventional wisdom has been go through undergrad with the least amount of debt since you will be occuring massive debt for med/law school.</p>
<p>hope this helps.</p>
<p>$40k of debt may not be too much for some students. It all depends on the student, family support, marketability, and luck. If a student is coming from a family who is already in financial difficulty and isn’t going to be able to help repay loans, get ready for the job market, it behooves such a student to keep the loans down low. It’s just one more monkey on the back. Do the math on a $40K loan. That’s 10 solid years of payments with probably another 4 in graduated amounts. The student is going to be in his mid 30’s before the loan is discharged. The way the economy and job markets have been in the last few years, kids have been putting off loan payments and will therefore owe more for longer. It can mess up their credit, some job opportunities and cause financial stress for those kids who can least afford this. </p>
<p>My neighbor’s daughter borrowed about $40k to go to a private school that she absolutely wanted. She graduated with an engineering degree and has been employed making a living wage. She still complains and begrudges the loan she is paying, but she can afford it. She has also received aid in terms of clothing, finding an apartment, support during job search, getting a car, household goods, extra checks, help from her parents in these 6 years out of school. She’ll be fine. My friend whose daughter is working part time at a coffee shop while the family has lost their house and is having financial trouble out the whazoo is a whole other story. She can’t pay back any debt right now as she is barely making ends meet and her family can’t help her an iota. In fact, she’s helped them out here and there. </p>
<p>There is no magic number that is too much debt. I use the Stafford and Perkins limits simply because that is what a student can get on his own name. Getting a co signer is really having someone share the credit history and responsibility of that loan. Might as well have the parent get the PLUS if that is the case unless the rates are that much better. The cosigned loans I saw were 9% in interest and no deal, in my opinion.</p>
<p>There are some situations where taking the very high loans is the best avenue. There are such cases. But too many families are taking this route without thinking long and hard about the long term ramifications and the pain of repaying these loans. Students are often naive about this reality. They see the now of the college they want, and are not thinking about the long years of repayment and are wonderfully optimistic of job prospects and life after college. I was listening to a shining eyed young girl who desperately wants to go to a small private college that will cost her family over $60K in loans over the Staffords she can take, and it is absolutely insanity for her to think that she will come out of there with prospects of making anywhere near what the loan payments are for her to go there when she could swing a local state school loan free. No way you can convince her and her parents desperately want her to get what she wants. She’s a great kid and a good student, and her parents have tried to get her all that she wanted and were pretty successful. Now she wants to go away to this college. It’s not like it’s some crazy idea or anything. It’s education. It’s a good school. Lots of kids she knows going there. Beautiful campus. Beats the CUNYs hands down in terms of the college vision they have. I don’t blame them a bit. But can they afford the differential? Is it worth the differential? What is the family and the girl losing in the future to obtain this dream college?</p>
<p>As the mom who has one starting med school in July and another who is taking her MCAT this summer–let me tell you the financial aid situation for medical school is sobering. </p>
<p>First of all, many (most?) medical schools (including some state schools–and surprise! mine is one of them) will require parental financial information until your student is 30. There is an explicit expectation that the parent will help underwrite the cost of a medical school education for all 4 years. </p>
<p>Second, there is very little FA except for loans. Granted most of the loan programs are federal, but only a maximum of $8500/yr is subsidized. (A $2000/yr max. Perkins loan may or may not be available depending on the school.) The other federal loans have interest rates currently between 6.8%-7.9% and are not subsidized. Private med schools do offer some merit awards, but any merit is more than offset by a much higher COA. At our state med school merit awards are very small–typically $2000 or less and non-renewable.</p>
<p>If you begin med school with a debt of $40,000 (the loans will go into deferment, but interest on the unsub portion will continue to accrue), then add another $150,000 in loans (with interest from 4.5% to 8.5%) on top of that…</p>
<p>Medical school is close to year round. (11 months for M1, 12 months for M2, 11 months for M3, 10 months for M4) Students have very little opportunity to hold jobs and earn meaningful amounts money that will help pay their expenses. Additionally the M4 year requires travel to interview for intern and residency positions–and those expenses are borne by the student. </p>
<p>Also fresh out of school MDs will not begin to earn right away. Primary care/family practice doctors will have 1 year of internship before they begin practicing. Those going in specialties will have another 2-7 years of residency and fellowships before they begin to practice.</p>
<p>Interns are paid, but at salary rate far below what a doctor earns (I’ve been told depending upon the location anywhere from $30,000- $38,000.) Interns may actually need to borrow to pay living expenses if their program is in an expensive locale. Residents and fellows get paid more–typically $38,000-$42,000/yr.</p>
<p>So when looking at the loan pay off for a potential med student, you need to consider that repayment will not begin for 5-10 years after college graduation–and the entire time the interest is accruing.</p>
<p>In my opinion, $40,000 of undergraduate debt is too much for a student to be carrying into med school.</p>
<p>I would also wonder even with cost, why SU is being regarded as better. I would have thought UB has some pretty good programs in this area. Also, one of my close friends kids go to UB and once you can move off campus, the housing is just unbelievably cheap.</p>
<p>I can vouch for that. There is a student “ghetto” where you can live very cheaply around UB and that seems to be what a lot of the kids want to do, so it’s not like it’s the poor kid’s thing to do. My son gave up a beautiful lake side campus apartment to have turf wars with his local crack den. I would have much preferred he stayed on campus and gladly paid the differential, but he was hot to get into a house with all of his friends. A lot of the kids do this. The room and board costs are very high for east coast schools when left up to the college and at Buffalo, those costs can be slashed by going off campus.</p>
<p>* why do you think a total of 40,000 debt would be to much for pre Med? My son will be a Pre Med student and I am interested to know your view on this. *</p>
<p>*The CAP for med students is $224,000. This amount is reduced my the amount of stafford loan debt you took on as an undergrad. For example; your son has maxed out his stafford loans during undergran. He has 27,000 in undergrad stafford loan debt. He can borrow 40k a year in stafford loans for med school (which just puts a dent in the cost of med school per year). Your son will have $189,000 of debt in stafford loans alone (not counting other loans he may need for med school).</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>Sybbie…can you clarify? Can’t he borrow up to the $224k amount minus the $27k for undergrad? Or is there an annual max of $40k for med school?</p>
<p>As others have detailed below, borrowing a lot for undergrad limits one’s ability to also borrow for med school. </p>
<p>Even if you’d like your child to attend an instate med school (if lucky to get accepted), the annual costs can easily run about $40k+ per year for tuition, fees, supplies, food, and housing (which can be more expensive than undergrad housing). And, if your child only gets accepted to a private or OOS public, then the costs can be $70k+ per year or more. </p>
<p>Sybbie mentioned that UPenn used to consider if the student has the borrowing power for all 4 years. From what I’ve heard, that practice still goes on at some med schools. No med school wants to accept a student who will have to drop out at some point because they can no longer borrow. </p>
<p>I know that people think that doctors make a lot of money, but it takes awhile for that to happen. Newish doctors can barely afford to pay back their loans and they often have a lot of “start up” costs associated with their practices. </p>
<p>Since WOWMom is going thru this whole med school process right now, I’ve been following her advice and the others on he pre-med thread to help figure things out for my pre-med son.</p>
<p>Students can get stafford loans up to 40.5k a year for med school (32k a year unsub)</p>
<p>staff loan max for med students is $224K</p>
<p>[FinAid</a> | Loans | Student Loans](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Student Loans - Finaid)</p>
<p>sorry I understand how that is confusing. If I do not include loans or work study in my financial aid packages, the COA for SU is 20000 or so and the COA for Buffalo is 14000. per year that is.</p>
<p>I consider SU better because 1) It is far enough away but closer than Buffalo so travel will be easier/less expensive. 2) I was accepted for dual enrollment so I could get two bachelors degrees instead of one. 3) I just like syracuse better.</p>
<p>Pfips, I dont know where you live but the travel is not going to cost 6Grand. Also, fyi, UB has in the past chartered buses that are either cheap or very low cost to go back and forth from NYC (stops in Westchester) at breaks. Is a fun bus, all students. What two majors are you talking about? Is one an area that UB doesnt have? If you do well at UB, you could probably pick up another major. If you dont do well at SU, you will probably drop one. Biomed eng is to me a pretty tough major. </p>
<p>My suggestion – get used to routing for the Bills.</p>