Athletes & Graduation Rates

Parents Forum
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<p>The NCAA uses several measurements in assessing the academic record of student-athletes. The primary vehicles are the Graduation Success Rate (GSR) and the Academic Progress Rate (APR). The Ivies do not report information on their GSRs so, if one wants to compare the Ivies to everyone else, then the APR is the only measurement available (that I am aware of) for student-athletes. Every Division I sports team calculates its APR each academic year, based on the eligibility, retention and graduation of each scholarship student-athlete.</p>

<p>In some respects, the Academic Progress Rate is a superior measurement to the traditional 6-year graduation rates as the APR is a real-time measurement of what is going on. Since it is calculated term-by-term, it provides a near real-time assessment of student-athlete and team academic performance. With APR, schools no longer have to wait for graduation day to see how student-athletes are doing academically.</p>

<p>The APR is a dual measurement. It is calculated based upon individual student-athlete academic progress but is reported as a composite team measurement. If a team’s APR falls below the 925 benchmark, the team could be sanctioned. </p>

<p>To calculate the APR, every student-athlete is tracked by eligibility and retention, the two most reliable factors in predicting graduation. Those who do well in the classroom and stay in school earn two points. Those who pass but do not return to school earn one point. If a student-athlete fails academically and leaves school, their team loses two points. If a student-athlete returns to school later and graduates, the school earns one bonus point. The team’s APR is calculated by dividing the total points earned in a year by the total points possible.</p>

<p>Following are how some groups perform on this measurement for the major sports of football, men’s basketball and baseball. The Ivies demonstrate the best rates of graduation for their student-athletes. The Patriot League and the Top 20 privates that are most prominent in Division I athletics are very close. The group representing publics ranked in the USNWR Top 30 scored materially lower. </p>

<p>FOOTBALL</p>

<p>987 Ivies
974 Patriot League
976 Top Privates (Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame)
950 Top Publics (UC Berkeley, U Virginia, UCLA, U Michigan, U North Carolina)
939 National Division I Average</p>

<p>BASKETBALL</p>

<p>988 Ivies
982 Patriot League
977 Top Privates (Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame)
955 Top Publics (UC Berkeley, U Virginia, UCLA, U Michigan, U North Carolina)
933 National Division I Average</p>

<p>BASEBALL
990 Ivies
987 Patriot League
985 Top Privates (Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame)
970 Top Publics (UC Berkeley, U Virginia, UCLA, U Michigan, U North Carolina)
946 National Division I Average</p>

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<p>Yes, the Patriot League has “awarding” scholarships for a few years now. That darned book, which I enjoyed very much, tends to make people think otherwise, but times have changed. Football is still viewed as “need based” I believe, but I think we all know how that can play out.</p>

<p>I can’t say this is absolutely correct, found it on the internet. But I do know enough to be reasonably certain that at least pieces of it are accurate.</p>

<p>Sorry, I can’t get the columns to line up properly when I post!</p>

<p>Colgate Athletics</p>

<p>Athletic Conferences:
Sport Conference
Football Patriot League
Basketball Patriot League
Track Patriot League</p>

<p>Students on Athletic Scholarships (2007):
Sport Men Women Total
Total 139 108 247
Football 65 0 65
Basketball 15 11 26
Track 10 16 26
All Other Sports 49 81 130</p>

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<p>

true that. nothing trumps Army/Navy! Have you ever been? However the past few years have been painful!
For football neither Army nor Navy are in the Patriot League. They compete as independents to get a broader schedule.</p>

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<p>That’s true that the Duke player can’t quit…</p>

<p>As for the ivies…when the Harvard and Yale reps came thru our kids’ school, they said that they allow something like 200 or so spots (maybe it was more) every year for athletes. These athletes are admitted with lower stats and their “hook” is their sport. Now, if that player “quits” their sport shortly after classes begin, or within the first year or two, is that ok?</p>

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<p>That attrition. although not quite as “calculated” as your statement might imply, is indeed the bane of ivy athletics and a sore point for admissions offices. You admit high-achieving ambitious accomplished athletes, and while they are there they start looking ahead to their careers. More than a few decide that it is a better bet for them to leave the team and spend more time in orgo lab or whatever their particular interest, than to fight for the glory of beating the Brown runner to the finish line. This is completely different than the “national championship or bust” programs, but it has its own issues.</p>

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<p>To have a high caliber team, you also need intelligent athletes…the stereotype of the “dumb jock” is kind of diminishing as coaches need players who can study future opponents, and can quickly learn, adapt, and respond to changes within a game. </p>

<p>I think I’m correct when I say that Coach Joe Paterno has had a strong history of encouraging his Penn St. football players to graduate. (yeah Joe Pa!)</p>

<p>I think it’s wonderful that many/most schools are not just letting athletes take lightweight courses that just keep them enrolled for scholarship purposes.</p>

<p>As I mentioned in an earlier post, UA has several graduates currently playing on its team. One player graduated within 3 years. So, even though Alabama tries to recruit the best fooball athletes, Coach Saban insists that he looks for brains, too.</p>

<p>May 8, 2009 </p>

<p>"The NCAA released national APR data on Wednesday. Alabama improved its score to a 955, a score that placed Alabama among the 80th percentile — i.e., the top 20 to 30 percent — of college football teams.</p>

<p>“It’s our goal, a standard that we set for ourselves,” [head football coach Nick] Saban said. “We want to have a high retention rate of players making good academic progress. Even more than that, we want to have a high graduation rate. That was higher this year, too, and it will be even better next year.”</p>

<p>Alabama has six players scheduled to graduate at UA ceremonies Saturday. Saban said that as many as 15 of next season’s 20 seniors could graduate in December as well. That’s a much better story than slipping rates, which have cost scholarships at some Southeastern Conference schools.</p>

<p>“I get a grade report every week,” Saban said. “We also have a system of checks and balances designed to develop good habits. I think our (Bryant Hall) facility is a real advantage. People don’t realize how important it is to have a central facility where the players can eat meals and study.”</p>

<p>Saban also said that the strong football showing in the APR was part of a campus-wide emphasis on academics.</p>

<p>“If we didn’t get feedback from the professors, it would be hard to maintain standards,” Saban said. “We get tremendous feedback and that has been a real positive for us.”…</p>

<p>…While Saban praised UA’s overall academic effort, he said he would be willing to devote even more resources to the “student” side of the student-athlete equation.</p>

<p>“I think our support should be unlimited,” Saban said. “I really mean that. I don’t think we should have a [limited] budget for academics. I think it should be a case where we do whatever we can and it really doesn’t matter what it costs. If we have a need for math tutoring, or computers, or whatever it might be, we should do that first and we should do whatever it takes. You are talking about the player’s future, about giving him an opportunity to develop a career off the field. That’s the most important thing we do.”</p>

<p>~snipped~</p>

<p>[Bama’s</a> APR brings a smile to Saban | TuscaloosaNews.com | The Tuscaloosa News | Tuscaloosa, AL](<a href=“http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20090508/NEWS/905079901/1001/NEWS07?Title=Bama-s-APR-brings-a-smile-to-Saban]Bama’s”>http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20090508/NEWS/905079901/1001/NEWS07?Title=Bama-s-APR-brings-a-smile-to-Saban)</p>

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<p>Gosh, yeah, the ‘Bama football players should get unlimited academic support, their own private dining hall, their own private tutors, their own private tutoring center and feedback from the players’ professors including grade reports every week. And if they need more computers, why, the athletic department should just buy them more computers. I wonder how much of this fantastic support is available to the rest of the students?</p>

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<p>I wonder how many Alabama players major in something that requires Math classes.</p>

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<p>I would find it hard to cheer for “my team” if I never talked to, ate with, or went to class with any of the players. If they need their own dorms, academic support structures, etc., then that tells me one of two things: (1) Football is taking up too much of their time, or (2) they’re not good enough students to be in college.</p>

<p>The NCAA officially limits student-athletes to 20 hours per week of sports-related activities. There are plenty of kids who work that many hours at part-time jobs, and do fine in school.</p>

<p>If schools like Notre Dame and Stanford can field respectable teams, then anyone can. They just need to work harder at it. If a coach wants to be responsible for nothing but winning football games, he should go to the NFL. College coaches should be mentors and role models.</p>

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<p>No, I’ve never been. I was hoping that Army would be at Vanderbilt next year, but they’re not:(. I wish Army would come out to the Midwest (Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Western KY, etc) so I could go to a game. I want to eventually see an Army-Navy game and I want to see a game at Army.</p>

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<p><<<<<<<
Gosh, yeah, the ‘Bama football players should get unlimited academic support, their own private dining hall, their own private tutors, their own private tutoring center and feedback from the players’ professors including grade reports every week. And if they need more computers, why, the athletic department should just buy them more computers. I wonder how much of this fantastic support is available to the rest of the students?
<<<<</p>

<p>Actually, UA provides free tutoring for all students. And, of course, there are computer labs all over the campus. Of course weekly grade reports to a 3rd party (like a coach), would be a violation of privacy for the other students. For the athletes, it’s part of their contract. </p>

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<p>Gosh, could this be some anti-south prejudice showing??? Actually, when I’ve heard the football athletes’ majors, many of them were various business, finance, accounting, science, or teaching majors - at least one is even a MATH major omg…that’s a lot of calculus!!!). </p>

<p>And since all UA students have to take at least 3 credit hours in math and 8 credit hours in natural science (many majors require more math and sciences)…there aren’t ANY football players that are majoring in a subject where they don’t have to take any math.</p>

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<p>Actually, the place that the football players eat (Bryant Sports Grill) is open to other students as well. UA has many eating venues on campus (just like other Universities). And, football players don’t have their “own” classes; they attend classes with the rest of the student body (good heavens…they’d all have to have the same major - which they don’t - to take the same exclusive classes!!) So, I don’t know where you got the idea that other students don’t have classes with the athletes or talk to them???</p>

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<p>The NCAA has another good way to compare the graduation performance/progress of student-athletes at top colleges. They rank via percentiles and classify schools’ APR performance in 10% bands. </p>

<p>Here is a comparison of many Division I colleges that are known for high academic standards:</p>

<p>FOOTBALL 90-100% Club
Brown
Bucknell
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Duke
Harvard
Holy Cross
Navy
Princeton
Rice
Stanford
U Penn
Yale</p>

<p>FOOTBALL 80-90% Club
Army
Georgetown
Lafayette
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Penn State
U Florida
UC Berkeley
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest</p>

<p>FOOTBALL 70-80% Club
USC
Lehigh
U Wisconsin</p>

<p>FOOTBALL 60-70% Club
UCLA
U Michigan
U North Carolina</p>

<p>FOOTBALL 50-60% Club
none</p>

<p>FOOTBALL 40-50% Club
U Virginia</p>

<p>FOOTBALL 30-40% Club
U Illinois</p>

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<p>“The NCAA officially limits student-athletes to 20 hours per week of sports-related activities. There are plenty of kids who work that many hours at part-time jobs, and do fine in school.”</p>

<p>Officially, yes they do. And that is one of THE biggest jokes of college athletics, no matter what conference.</p>

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<p>Here is the information on men’s basketball:</p>

<p>BASKETBALL 90-100% Club
Army
Brown
Bucknell
Columbia
Duke
Harvard
Holy Cross
Lehigh
Navy
Notre Dame
Princeton
U Illinois
U North Carolina
U Penn
U Texas
Yale</p>

<p>BASKETBALL 80-90% Club
American
Colgate
Cornell
Dartmouth
Lafayette
Northwestern
Penn State
Stanford
UCLA
Vanderbilt</p>

<p>BASKETBALL 70-80% Club
Wake Forest</p>

<p>BASKETBALL 60-70% Club
Rice
U Florida
U Michigan
UC Berkeley</p>

<p>BASKETBALL 50-60% Club
Georgetown</p>

<p>BASKETBALL 40-50% Club
U Virginia
U Wisconsin</p>

<p>BASKETBALL 30-40% Club
none</p>

<p>BASKETBALL 20-30%
USC</p>

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<p>Here is the information on baseball:</p>

<p>BASEBALL 90-100% Club
Brown
Bucknell
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Duke
Harvard
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Navy
Notre Dame
Princeton
U Penn
Vanderbilt
Yale</p>

<p>BASEBALL 80-90% Club
Army
Georgetown
Northwestern
Stanford
U Florida
USC
Wake Forest</p>

<p>BASEBALL 70-80% Club
U Illinois
U Michigan
U Virginia
UC Berkeley</p>

<p>BASEBALL 60-70% Club
Rice</p>

<p>BASEBALL 50-60% Club
UCLA</p>

<p>BASEBALL 40-50% Club
U Texas</p>

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<p>Scholarships - those of you who said the Patriot League has returned to giving scholarships are correct. Lafayette, the last holdout, has them for basketball, football and a women’s sport (maybe soccer or field hockey?), but it’s only a handful for each sport. The vast majority of players are not on scholarship - with the possible exception of basketball, since the team is relatively small so the percentage of players on scholarship is larger. </p>

<p>The key to the Patriot League is that their admitted athletes must fit the profile of their overall student body, similar to an Ivy League rule. The presidents of the colleges in the league share the stats of their recruited athletes (not just their scholarship athletes), and can challenge one another if they feel an athlete is being admitted who doesn’t qualify academically. </p>

<p>The Patriot League was actually started as a “sister” league to the Ivies, the Ivies were looking for football teams to play that were Division 1 but would compete on a level playing field with their athletes as far as being STUDENT-athletes.</p>

<p>The Last Amateurs is indeed a fascinating read. Most of the coaches profiled are still at their respective schools, including Fran O’Hanlon at Lafayette. </p>

<p><< I would find it hard to cheer for “my team” if I never talked to, ate with, or went to class with any of the players. >> This is the great thing about Patriot League schools. They’re playing Division I Athletics but their students are truly both students and members of the student body. We went to a football game at Lafayette with DS and his roommate. The roommate was talking about his friend who was playing in the game. When I asked how he met the player, the roommate said, “Oh, he was in the theater production with me last spring.” DS worked with one of the varsity basketball players on a group project in a class, he said the guy was nice, intelligent, and a hard worker. </p>

<p>The reference for my original post is:
[Patriot</a> League Official Athletic Site](<a href=“http://www.patriotleague.org/school-bio/patr-school-bio-aboutpl.html]Patriot”>http://www.patriotleague.org/school-bio/patr-school-bio-aboutpl.html)</p>

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<p>I wasn’t referring to Alabama specifically, so don’t take offense. I have no idea what it’s like there.</p>

<p>There are colleges—I’ve attended, worked, and/or lived at a few—where many of the football and basketball players live, eat, and study in their own facilities, and have majors with hard-to-pin-down names like Applied General Studies, which translates to “whatever Coach thinks I can pass.” I understand this applies to neither all players nor all schools, and in any case, I’m not contemptuous of the players, but rather the coaches and administrators who bend the academic rules in order to win football and basketball games. (As far as I can tell, only the money sports have this problem.) We all know about these things; they’re no secret.</p>

<p>Logically, there is only one reason that the graduate rate of athletes should be lower than that of other students: They were admitted according to lower standards. That cheapens a college education, and that bothers me.</p>

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<p>NCAA rules stipulate that graduation rate statistics be given to prospective athletes who accept an official visit. I know for a fact D received this information by e-mail from two of the Ivies. I’m also positive that the e-mail attachment she was sent from one school was titled “Graduation Rate Data”, though I suppose it could have be APR instead.</p>

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<p>A sidebar on USC…</p>

<p>Pete Carroll has done an excellent job cleaning up USC’s football program - the 70-80 percentile is a great improvement over a quite frankly poor performance previously. Hopefully, USC will keep that number inching up into the 80th-percentile (wish I could say the same with basketball)</p>

<p>Some sample majors of football players here at USC:
Sociology, Poli Sci, Classics (requires greek or latin!), History, International Relations, American Studies, Communications, Economics (requires calc), Social Economics (calc), Business (calc+statistics)</p>

<p>And these aren’t benchwarmers - two of USC’s starting defensive players major in econ… one of the starting offensive line is getting his MBA…</p>