Athletes & Graduation Rates

<p>Some of the Ivy athletes at my son’s college are connected up senior year with alums and get excellent jobs. Athletic training serves you well in many careers- you are disciplined and a team player.</p>

<p>I’m late to this thread, but a few points:</p>

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<li><p>Studies of athletes show they are woefully misinformed about their futures. A shockingly large percentage of football players believe they will play in the NFL. The schools do a poor job of educating the players about their real prospects. </p></li>
<li><p>The NCAA made graduation rates a specific goal. Before that, rates at many schools were hideous and if there’s a word worse than that for rates for black athletes you can use it. The problem is that graduation rates are a fairly pathetic proxy for academic success and preparation for the real world. Sure there are athletes who become doctors - and one Florida State player is now a Rhodes Scholar - but there are more stories about athletes taking silly classes where they do no work and get a grade or about papers being written for them (with the instructor’s knowledge), etc.</p></li>
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<p>EMM1 while I agree that the person you describe has a chance, my personal experience makes me not as optimistic as you. I happen to be acquainted with and also have heard about other former high level college athletes who are currently struggling to make ends meet. I’m sure there are exceptions, but I still maintain that the road for the student athlete is tough unless they apply themselves in college in a major that will make them marketable.</p>

<p>Which brings me back to the reason I started this thread. The above 2 posts are true in some cases, particularly at the big-time, big-money schools, and in the revenue sports (football, men’s basketball, maybe men’s hockey). But its not true everywhere. There are colleges and leagues that do college sports right - even in Division I. The Patriot and Ivy Leagues are the best D1 examples, but there are plenty of Division 3 schools that do it right as well.</p>

<p>I did not mean to suggest that I am optimistic about Jim or any of the other boys in his situation; indeed, I would not be optimistic about the prospects for any but the top students in second level state schools unless they develop some special marketable skill. My points are that a) boys like Jim have NO chance without athletic scholarship and b) participation DI athletics is itself an experience that that employers value.</p>

<p>I hope we can all (or almost all) agree:</p>

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<li><p>Athletes serious about academic success need to look hard at graduation rates and the majors of athletes. Many will be better off being a key player and a successful student at an Ivy/Patriot/D3 school than a bench player who does not graduate form a D1 school.</p></li>
<li><p>Scholarships can be a valuable ticket out of poverty, but far too many colleges fail to do nearly as much as they could to ensure this actually happens and athletes far too often fail to consider they may need a fallback if they do not become pro athletes long enough to achieve financial security.</p></li>
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<p>Where I think everyone will have their own, differing opinions are:</p>

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<li><p>Will the athlete who does not graduate, or graduates with a very low GPA be at a hiring advantage? I have seen it work both ways–some look at such athletes and see dedication and competitive zeal and, for example, grab them for their field sales force. Others see such athletic backgrounds as more a sign of irrelevant phsyical skills (strength and speed, etc) and a lack of mental skills. Frankly, I have seen a lot of hiring of athletes by sports fans who want to hear their stories and a lot of rejection of athletes by people who disliked or were jealous of “jocks” in HS and college and don’t want them around. Athletes with strong academics, however, can write their own ticket–Wall Street and the Fortune 500 usually love them.</p></li>
<li><p>Are people like the marginal student and former UPS employee EMM describes wise in taking scholarships with a slim likelihood they will graduate or play pro? Some certainly will–and I will root for all of them–but some will regret giving up 4 years of pay, pension and seniority in a recession to play football. </p></li>
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<p>I think education is great, but too many college grads look down on people who take jobs that do not require college degrees only to find later that unionized tradesmen, bus drivers, or successful plumbers or contractors make a lot of money and do not lose jobs in a recession.</p>

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<p>The reality is that for some athletes (like some artists, actors, musicians, etc.) their college education is “beside the point.” And I don’t see anything wrong with that. Just because a person’s passion and priority isn’t book learning, doesn’t mean there is something wrong with them going to college anyway. Where would be the best place for a basketball player to hone his skills and enjoy his passion, all expenses paid, other than at one of the thousands of colleges in America?</p>

<p>The idea that colleges and coaches don’t care about their athletes’ educations is ridiculous. Athletes become ineligible to play if they don’t meet NCAA academic standards. But there is only so much that coaches and colleges can do to keep their players eligible, if the player won’t try.</p>

<p>If an athlete isn’t playing well and doesn’t care about class, then dropping out makes sense. What is the difference between a basketball player dropping out and Bill Gates dropping out? Even drop outs benefit from a year or two of exposure to college.</p>

<p>P.S. Anyone who thinks that college athletics does not provide an “education” which, according to your post is a college’s “primary function,” (btw, are colleges allowed to have legitimate secondary functions?), doesn’t know much about college athletics, which probably bestow more real-world knowledge and experience than any history/math/science book and lecture.</p>

<p>Why not establish sports colleges, where you can learn about the real world without ever having to open one-a them books or set foot in one-a them classrooms? And everyone who wants book larnin’ can go to one-a them fancy colleges with perfessers and stuff. Then we’d all be happy.</p>

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<p>Playing in Europe.</p>

<p>I don’t criticize the players for being pretend students while playing semiprofessional basketball, football or hockey. I criticize the colleges for allowing athletes to pretend to be students at their schools. It demeans the real students who study and the real professors who teach.</p>

<p>Young actors, musicians and artists can have wonderful experiences while practicing their art. But they don’t have to do this at college, and we don’t pretend they are students when they are not. Why then do we allow colleges to operate real colleges where students pursue academic pursuits and parallel imaginary colleges where the “students” are professional athletes who don’t study?</p>

<p>Spoken like a true intellectual snob.</p>

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<p>Except for the players that don’t make professional levels and don’t end up with a real degree, real college football fans that no longer have decent teams at their schools, and the professional leagues that no longer have players entering he league with a built in fan base and reputation.</p>

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<p>Don’t most schools have music performance majors? Theater majors? Art majors?</p>

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<p>Why on earth should we assume that it’s the colleges’ job to run minor league sports? Somehow people watch professional baseball. Even though most professional baseball players don’t go to college, people still watch the Yankees and the A’s.</p>

<p>In Europe, universities don’t run minor league soccer. And yet, somehow, European universities manage to survive, and so does professional soccer.</p>

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<p>Others on this board have proposed this revenge-of-the-nerds solution in the past. Sadly, very few colleges in American have recognized its brilliance. Apparently, all thar good sense musta been “demeaned” out the winder by them athaletes.</p>

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<p>Are college soccer teams threatening the survival of U.S. colleges?</p>

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Baseball, though, has relatively few established megastars and way fewer young stars. If Clayton Kershaw or any other top baseball prospect were an equivalent in one of the other major sports, they would be much better known, and that’s a huge advantage for those other leagues. The NBA tried letting high school players in for a short while. Clearly they prefer not to.

I don’t know that many people here would approve of kids essentially becoming professional athletes at 13 or younger.</p>

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<p>I watch “big time” college football and I’ve never seen that major (General studies) listed. I’m not saying that it doesn’t exist; I’m just saying I’ve never seen it. Unless that is some kind of Liberal Art degree, I wonder what it requires and who offers it.</p>

<p>And, yes it is common for schools to give athletes priority scheduling. Maybe not at your kids’ schools, but it is quite common. Sometimes priority registration for athletes is at the same time as the honors students or seniors.</p>

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<p>Here at SEMO we offer a “General Studies” major. Students have to meet the “University Studies” requirements like everyone else and then just have to have 69 other credits with a little over half of those being 300-level or higher.</p>

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<p>Our athletes get the benefit of registering for classes early. In fact, we start next Monday (Nov 2) already! I believe athletes, grad students, and athletic training students who get to start that day. Seniors start the next day. Guess it’s one of the “perks” of working for the university…</p>

<p>Our State U promotes its Honors College by offering, among other things, priority scheduling, “even before athletes!” (Those are the exact words on the brochure I’m looking at.)</p>

<p>I don’t know how to use the quote option, so forgive me, but: “Guess it’s one of the “perks” of working for the university…” That says it right there. Being an athlete at the college level (D1) is a full time job, and if there is scholarship money involved which there should be given the effort required, it’s a job whose pay is the scholarship. For me the weakness in this scenario comes when easy curricula is chosen with no thought of the long-term career. Clearly athletics needs to be take a backseat to academics.</p>

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<p>But that makes it sound as if athletes are the only ones who choose “easy” majors.</p>