I had a conversation recently that I have had several times in the last few months. When talking with a high school coach at my son’s school (different sport) about what colleges he was looking at, I mentioned that he has looked at some Ivy schools. He said in a very concerned voice, “You do know that they don’t offer scholarships in the Ivy League, right?”
I did talk to him a bit about how the need based aid is different at a 100% need met school, and that for most people (including me unfortunately) their income is low enough that the cost is usually comparable to or even a bit cheaper than the state flagship. I think this was new information to him. He actually has one of his athletes going through the recruiting process right now who is getting offers from D1 programs that are athletically equivalent to Ivy schools, and the kid is academically qualified. I don’t know him or his parents that well, so I don’t know if he is giving serious consideration to any Ivy’s or not. Apparently if he is he hasn’t talked to his coach about it.
I like this coach personally and I get that he was trying to be helpful, which I do appreciate. But at least around here, the focus is all about the scholarship. The local D2 is a much better choice than Princeton, because they will give a top recruit a 1/2 scholarship in S’s sport. There isn’t really consideration given to the fact that a degree from Princeton (or Cornell or Brown or where ever) might be a bit more valuable than from the local directional state U.
I do feel like I live in a place that is a bit insular from the world and the wide range of opportunities it provides. But I am surprised by how few people even consider the possibility of going to an elite school and the benefits it can provide.
It’s true that coaches often don’t give good advice r.e. the Ivies, and parents don’t know enough to make a decision either. We have a family member who steered his athlete child toward the Ivies knowing full well the “benefits” of an Ivy degree vs even a full ride at his state U. Other parents on the team were dubious and somewhat incredulous in regards to this strategy, the coach just shrugged.
My dad tells me all the time, your college choice for football is a 4 year decision. Your college choice for your major is a lifetime decision. If you can find one college that can fulfill both your passions then you are blessed.
Many coaches are concentrating on the athletic fit and not the academic fit. Other than head count sports and getting full rides, most high school or club coaches don’t know what the schools will offer, what the family can afford, what the school is known for in academics. The coach may know that the student is a ‘good student’ but does that mean 3.5 gpa and 30 on the ACT or does it mean 3.9 and a 34? Both ‘good’ students, different tier of schools in the running.
It would surprise me if one or two students a year from our high school made it to the Ivies, and they aren’t necessarily athletes. The coaches wouldn’t know about the financial arrangements at Ivies but might know about local publics or the schools kids from the last three years have received athletic aid or admission. Telling a kid to apply to the Ivies would be the outlier, not pointing them toward a small public or private school in the region where the hs coach might know the college coach.
D’s high school coach was a kid herself, about 25 I think. She worked a regular job and coached as an extra activity. She didn’t know anything about colleges or how to finance an education. D’s club coach was also a teacher at a neighboring school, so was a little more knowledgeable, but she was also young (her dad helped her run the club), she knew Long Island schools and teams, and not much about scholarships or paying for schools. I’m sure she had zero idea about how financial aid works at Brown.
@twoinanddone brings up good points. I think it depends on what the sport is, professional experience of the coach and relationship coaches have with HS counseling office. Even if all those points are aligned a coach could easily overlook pointing a qualified student athlete towards the Ivies.
I also found our HS counseling office lacking in basic understanding on how athletic recruiting differs from regular student college searches. AND my son’s HS touts itself as a sports powerhouse. It’s faculty should be better educated. In the end it was my son’s persistence that came through and the sage advice of parents here on cc who had gone through the same process. Without them I would never have known to ask for a FA pre-read prior to my son’s OVs.
I make a point of sharing our experience with parents and athletes who are academically qualified and would be good matches for an Ivy.
I’m happy that S seems to understand that he will retire from his sport at 22 unless he can progress to the Olympic level (which is unlikely for anyone no matter how good you are at 16). So he has been focused on the long term benefits of college more so than the short-term athletic aspect.
He is still talking to a variety of programs to keep options open. But I think ultimately he will end up at the best academic school that also meets his athletic desires.
His coach has been helpful. He doesn’t really know a lot about these programs, but understands son’s reasons for pursuing that path and is trying to help him.
I wasn’t really talking about coaches in the OP, although I used one as an example. Really just how people in general that I know are very surprised that son is looking at Ivy type programs and not just which is the best athletic school that will give him money. I get this a lot, enough that I try to avoid the conversation. My local area is the polar opposite of CC. No obsession with Ivy’s around here!
I used the coach as an example because I thought he would be more knowledgeable than the average person. He has a low level D1 recruit with a 34 ACT on his team, who I know has had at least an inquiry from at least one Ivy. I figured it would have come up how the process works.
Did you have any idea how the Ivy financial aid process worked until you had a child who might attend an Ivy school, dadof4kids? Do you have any idea how the process works at, say Cal or Texas or a service academy if you haven’t considered those schools? Most people, including coaches, have no reason to look into the process until they need it for themselves. I doubt there are a lot of guidance counselors know how FA works at schools they aren’t used to sending their students to.
I had no idea how athletic aid worked until my daughter was a senior in high school. There was an athletic department secretary who knew how to register with the NCAA, and that was about it for help at our school.
Fair point. But I also wouldn’t have questioned someone for trying to get their kid into Harvard or Princeton because the directional U would give them a (partial) scholarship. It is lack of knowledge in a couple areas. One, how the financial aid works. I agree that is a huge factor, and is poorly understood. Two, the benefits of an elite education. I have had both, one for undergrad and another for a professional degree. It is a completely different set of peers, and different set of opportunities that are provided to graduates of those institutions. I know to a certain extent you can make your own opportunities no matter your school. But there are opportunities offered to students and graduates of elite schools that just aren’t offered otherwise.
No one is saying you shouldn’t shoot for an Ivy especially since you do know how the finances work, just that many don’t and don’t really care because they are happy at the schools that are nearby and want the athletic scholarship money. Yes, some people would rather have the athletic money at StateU than the financial need money at Dartmouth, even if the net cost is more at StateU.
The kids from my own high school who went OOS or even private were very limited. The GCs and coaches knew how to get the kids into state schools. Anyone who went OOS had parents who were from the east coast or were university professors, and like you, dadof4kids, knew how to navigate on their own because the GC and coaches couldn’t help. People didn’t think MIT or Harvard were better than Wisconsin or MN-TC. My sister and two of her classmates went to MIT, Harvard and Middlebury (and one could have had a swimming scholarship almost anywhere). The response was ‘Congrats.’ The response to someone going to UW was ‘Congrats.’ There were a lot of people thinking “Why would they want to go so far away?” BTW, my sister ended up back at Madison mostly for money reasons, but also because she didn’t like living in the middle of nowhere at an LAC. Madison is more fun.
For the last 3 years or so, the boys basketball team at this school has been phenomenal, winning the state championship back to back, and nationally ranked. Five seniors have D1 scholarships - all instate! The kids just don’t want to go far away, are happy with the instate choices, and their parents can drive the 2 hours and watch them play. Everyone’s happy.
I love my daughter’s choice and the school and the team are right for her, but I wish I didn’t live 2000 miles away and could see her play more.
I think the salient point is that there are a lot of people out here in fly over country who are simply not aware of the level of aid available at the Ivys or other top level academic institutions. This is not the 1970s or 1980s anymore, when such schools were truly out of reach of large sections of the population. I have done this now with an athlete and a non athlete. My son’s high school was sophisticated in these matters and made him and others aware of the potential financial benefits available at certain schools. Consequenty, a lot of boys, both athletes and non, attend schools all over the contry. My daughter’s school was less so, and virtually all of the information being pushed to the parents was about scholarship opportunities in the region. There was very little awareness that for the vast majority of families at that school, an Ivy or similar school would cost the family somewhere in the neighborhood of what was already being paid for high school tuition. So a lot of girls stay within the region for college. I can’t tell you the number of parents who made comments about how hard it must be to afford to send our kids to snobby school A and B, when I knew that they were paying as much if not more to send their kid to local college x, even with the “dean’s scholarship” the kid won.
So the question really is whether people are happy going to schools in a particular region, or whether they exclude certain schools because they believe the price tag is simply too high. I would be willing to bet there is a little truth on both sides of that issue. The same is obviously true for athletes, particularly in non head count sports.
It is easy to say go for Ivy because they offer FA: for those of us who are not rich yet do not qualify for any FA the cost of college is a huge burden. Scholarship money and/or total cost is a major factor. Full freight at Ivy XYZ is not worth it over 1/2 at University of XYZ.
I agree Ohiodad51, but there are a lot who are just happy with their local choices too. I know a lot of people who didn’t want to go to an Ivy don’t want to live in NYC or Boston, and really don’t want to live in the Maine woods.