@Crosbylane, your thoughts seem entirely reasonable and could well be the case. It is difficult to believe that with the back and forth that happens between coach and admissions, admissions wouldn’t say, “hey, your slot hasn’t submitted her recommendations.” I am only telling you what coaches told me. Again, I emphasize that this was the “final” decision that I am talking about – the formal acceptance.
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@NiVo, We often talk about the NESCAC, since it has a prescribed method of recruiting. Many D3 schools have similar attributes - others do not. The schools that are more dicey (dicey meaning that the recruit does not have the same confidence level of admission as a NESCAC) include MIT, Chicago, and NYU. I would attribute this story to NYU (which sounds like an awful experience), not to D3 in general and not to the NESCACs.
As we all know, oral agreements are as enforceable as written agreements, written agreements are just easier to prove. With D3 recruiting, and this is Division wide, there are no NLIs and all commitments are mutually unenforceable. This is why D3 schools are not permitted to publicize recruits before the recruit puts down a tuition deposit.
So yes, are you asking if NLIs or LLs give recruits more “confidence” than a commitment from a coach? Perhaps, although we have heard of those falling through as well. At the bottom line, however, the entire process across Divisional lines is one of little control for the recruit. For example, the recruit can always be cut from the team. In all likelihood, the debate about whether LLs or NLIs or D3 commitments give greater certainty probably is school and coach dependent (certainly so at the D3 level) and we’ll never be able to prove it one way or the other.
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Just one word of caution since this happened to us. Getting your application submitted weeks before Nov 1 is a great idea…we did this thinking the LL would be immediately forthcoming. DC’s high school did not complete their parts (recommendations, etc) until right around Nov 1, so everything was held up, and we didn’t get our LL until the first week of November. So while we planned to allow a “plan B” in case something went wrong, our high school had different ideas.
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For what it is worth, that timing was our experience as well at an Ivy.
We did not have College Confidential then to help understand the process though we found the coaches were straight forward.
We took our time, weighing school options including non Ivy D1 and committed Ivy in October.
Also, you are correct in it shortens the “sweat it out” phase, though I still sweated out the Likely Letter (which I believe did not have the word likely in the letter) and sweated out admissions accept, but it all worked out according to what the coaches had told us.
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This is such an important point…again, showing that the student/family does not have control over so many pieces of the process. One other point is that for schools where the student applied ED, and then wants to switch that to another round…it can be hard/time consuming/beyond some HS GCs as to how to back that first ED out of the common app so that another ED app/agreements can be signed and sent (as nivo suggested in a post above).
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I suspect that most of the “disappointment” cases for NESCACs are when the recruit only receives a “tip” vs a full “slot”. There are generally only 2 slots per team (outside of football) and there may be 2 or more tips that a coach is allowed to use. A coach may still tell a recruit that they are receiving the coach’s support, but in the case of tips, there is less assurance that the AO will accept the student, even with a positive pre-read. That is why it is critical to make sure you know the exact level of support before committing ED, especially if your stats fall below the median of previously accepted students.
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That all depends on what you sport you play and where you are on the coach’s recruiting list. If you are fortunate enough to be at the top of the list, there isn’t much stress with the athletic recruiting process either. Of course, very few athletes are so fortunate.
Very very few are getting to call the shots. As you note, there aren’t many. AND even if you’re super-elite and targeting a top program, they may have someone who plays your position/does your event and the coach may have another itch to scratch.
I suppose there are exceptions, but even the most talented players I’ve seen (Men’s soccer) have stress in their recruiting. Will they hit Stanford’s minimum SAT? Will they get an offer from their 1st choice? Will they get the package they want? (Not all financial). These are kids that are so good they went pro or are about to. However, it is probably true that their stress/anxiety is due to different specifics. But it is there during recruiting, even for them.
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If you are really at the top of their recruiting list, it is extremely unlikely the coaches have identified any competitor who will displace you. Top of the list means that you are expected to be an early starter, future star, not a bench player. Top of the list means that you may have been targeted long before the contact period with potential unofficial conversations/visits months-years before they officially are permitted. Top of the list means you are getting the most generous financial package possible. For those programs that were still requiring standardized tests, the coach will tell the commit in advance what is the minimum score the admissions office will accept. In some cases, the commit has almost a year of test-taking to meet that minimum score. Depending on the school, those minimum scores can be significantly below the 25th percentile for the entering class. For those programs that are test optional, athletes are not required to take any standardized examination at all.
Yes, these recruits are extremely rare, the top 1% of all prospective recruits. But they exist and to say that all athletic recruits go through a long, arduous, and stressful game is simply not true. These exceptions occur every year. But for the rest of the athletic recruit pool, the overwhelming majority of prospective athletes, the process can be as arduous as you describe.
Stress is also dependent on the schools targeted relative to level of play. A “low” D1 caliber athlete with excellent academics may be in a stressful situation if they are gunning for Ivies or other high academic D1’s, but that same athlete may receive multiple offers of support from academic D3’s.
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assuming a candidate swimmer applies to D3/Ivy and has the average GPA/SAT/ACT of the previous year’s admitted class, and swims with times in the top 1/3 fastest of the current varsity team, and the communication vibe with the coach is very good: what are the odds that such candidate wouldn’t get a subsequent LL? if that’s a possibility, what else can the candidate do?
Every sport, team, and coach is unique.
However, in general, If the coach really wants the player, the coach will be up front and tell that player what is required to get the likely letter. The coach isn’t going to waste his/her time pursuing a player who is unlikely to get through the admissions office.
My understanding is that the AO gives out a red/yellow/green light response. The green light is the likely letter- you are essentially in. The yellow light means you have to improve certain things within a certain timeframe to get in. There is usually an explanation of what they want. The coach may still pursue you if he/she really wants you. The red light means you aren’t likely to get in. The coach is likely to drop you as a recruited athlete.
In general, coaches tend to have a very good idea of what does and doesn’t get through their AO.
The depth chart for swimming can be misleading. The bottom 2/3 of the times will be from tired swimmers in off events at meets the team didn’t care about. Pay attention to the times at the conference meet in your D’s events. If she is putting up times that will score at the conference meet, she should be in the running.
My son is at an Ivy for a different sport, but his coach won’t offer a slot to a recruit before they meet the team. Fit matters. If the team feels a recruit might hurt the team culture, they probably won’t be offered a slot.
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@NiVo , the coach will tell you what level of support you have. If you are a true recruit, with a slot, you’ll be fine. If you have the times you desribe but the coach wants to support other swimmers - faster, different events - you won’t be supported and they’ll tell you that. This is a courtship of sorts, not a game you have to work out on your own. Most athletes who apply as recruits do not have unpleasant surprises.
And many athletes find the road to being recruits longer and more difficult than they anticipated because it isn’t just about the “holes” the coach wants to fill based on the current roster, but the fact that the prospects available to that coach may be changing. One day, you may be their favorite goalie prospect, but a week later, when someone who got turned down by their top choice appears, you may be less interesting. This is why you need to talk with a number of schools and why most, early on, keep SO many prospects warm. There is a ton you cannot control, but typically by the time you apply, everyone has found their place.
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Yes. Coaches are like used car salesmen. They tell you what you want to hear to keep you hanging in case their better options fall through. Only their top options get their real full court press. In fairness, there are quite a few athletic recruits who do the same thing.
An important caveat is that the yellow light and green light are assuming the coach throws their support behind the recruit. Lots of recruits get green pre-reads but are not offered coach support, and a green pre-read without coach support is meaningless.
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What’s the coach’s purpose of allowing a recruit to go through the pre-read process if he/she has no interest in recruiting the player?
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They often run more pre-reads than they have slots because they will filter through additional conversations and official visits, plus some recruits will choose other schools.
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They won’t have a pre-read done if they have no interest. If a coach asks for a pre-read, they are interested in the recruit. At that stage, they are interested in more recruits than they have slots. From the coach’s viewpoint, the process looks like this:
Coaches talk to a fairly large number of prospects.
Based on times and academics, some of these are offered pre-reads. Some recruits pass the pre-read, some do not.
From the positive pre-reads, the coach will offer some OVs. The number of OVs offered is a function of budget, bandwidth and need. Most coaches have a good feel for how many OVs they need to get the right number of recruits to fill a class. They will want to offer a little bit more OVs than this number.
After the OVs, coach will offer slots in a way to set up the best incoming class they think they can pull off. Some recruits accept right away, some try to buy time while they wait for other offers or just try to make up their mind. The coach wants to make sure if one recruit says no (or delays) another recruit is ready and waiting. Not all recruits are worth the same wait. Not all of the recruits who went on an OV get an offer.
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