<p>One interesting thing I have noticed the last 3 years is that nothing is a done deal till school actually starts freshman year.
I have now seen at least 3 students who the summer before freshman year end up at a different school then they had committed. All following a strong spring season. In two of the cases the student had not even applied to the school. In one other I think she has applied but not been accepted and is now set to attend and play on a div 1 team. Don't know if she is getting any scholarship money. (I know she is red-shirting freshman yr)
One of the young woman was offered a spot on a fall team with money in June. This was not her primary sport. She had had a strong season in track and field and the coach wanted her but had no money left to give. The other sport came up with money. She had the unusual case of being on a sport 1 scholarship and while practiced with the team never made the traveling squad. She knew all along in that sport she was not even close to the caliber of players.</p>
<p>^^come to think of it, we saw a lot of this too. My daughter played two sports all four years of high school and so knew recruited athletes in both sports. By the end of freshman year, only my daughter and a couple of others were still student athletes, but, in our experience, they all quit their sports because they didn't like the coach, or they got to campus and suddenly discovered so many more interesting things to do, or they were injured, etc. </p>
<p>So many things change once the student athlete actually arrives on campus....</p>
<p>There is so much great information in this thread and forum!
My only advice on this subject would be to commit early if you have the right offer to the right school. We know a lot of kids who committed early and they really then enjoyed their senior year.</p>
<p>My son's senior year was unbelievably hectic as he was being recruited for soccer and football. We were so unprepared for all of the rules, endless phone calls, home visits etc. My son was out of class, meeting with coaches, more than he was in class. I know he enjoyed meeting so many wonderful people, but it did take away a lot of his senior year free time.</p>
<p>I had talked to parents who had kids go through the recruiting process and they all said, "Oh, it is so much fun." It was very overwhelming, so to have a recruiting counselor would be helpful to get you over the learning curve quickly. (I didn't even know about creating a player profile!)</p>
<p>He leaves for school on Friday, so then I will probably wishing for all of those hectic times :)</p>
<p>If I can help anyone, we have been through the gamut D1-Ivy League and all over the country, please let me know.</p>
<p>
[quote]
One of the young woman was offered a spot on a fall team with money in June. This was not her primary sport. She had had a strong season in track and field and the coach wanted her but had no money left to give. The other sport came up with money. She had the unusual case of being on a sport 1 scholarship and while practiced with the team never made the traveling squad. She knew all along in that sport she was not even close to the caliber of players.
[/quote]
This is likely an NCAA violation. Perhaps the sport was not high profile, and it went unnoticed. In Div1 football, for example, if a kid earns a scholarship for lacrosse, but also makes the football squad as a walk-on, his scholarship is counted against the foootball team, even though larosse is his primary sport. This is done to stop abuse, such as what was done for the girl you mentioned. Imagine if the big $$ sports were able to "borrow" scholarships from lesser sports. It would create a very lopsided recruiting situation. (Which already exists, as so many schools ingnore the "student" component of the student-athlete ideal.) Her track coach earned an unfair advantage by getting a scholarship level athlete for his team while not having to charge the scholarship against his quota.</p>
<p>Oh, I haven't visited my old thread in a while and am so grateful for all your responses. I now wish we had gone on more unofficial visits and may try to squeeze one or two in before the end of summer. </p>
<p>cptofthehouse, erg times are indeed important, but for the top schools I think the number is closer to 6:30 for a 2K for the kids to pop on the coachs' radar - at least for boys. And lower is always better.</p>
<p>Thanks again all.</p>
<p>Since we don't yet have an athletic recruiting forum on CC, I hope nobody minds if I hijack this thread with a few more questions for the veterans of the process.</p>
<p>A few days ago, a professional college counselor told me that athletic recruits do not have to fill out the same application form as other students, which means no essays. I know this is true for some schools because I've read accounts on CC, but is it true for the Ivies too? Also, he said he did not think (but wasn't sure) that athletes needed the SAT II's either, even for the Ivies. Does anyone know if this is the case?</p>
<p>Secondly, suppose you have a very good student (but not genius--one who might, but also might not be an Ivy candidate w/o athletics) who is an excellent athlete and is being actively being recruited by Ivies and other elite schools. Suppose said student is only interested in Wharton at UPenn or the Walsh School at Georgetown, for example. Would the athletic hook be sufficient to bump them into a highly competitive program like those, or would it just serve for general admission to those universities? Does anyone know?</p>
<p>^I am aware of a student whose academic stats would be considered low for Wharton but as a recruited athlete is headed there this fall.</p>
<p>There's a collegiate rowing directory on usrowing.org:</p>
<p>I do know a private admissions counselor who advertises as being an expert in college sports recruiting; however, I believe the "expertise" is that her kids play sports in college - I don't think on scholarship. So be careful to assess the qualifications of anyone who charges a lot as an expert athletic admissions counselor.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A few days ago, a professional college counselor told me that athletic recruits do not have to fill out the same application form as other students, which means no essays. I know this is true for some schools because I've read accounts on CC, but is it true for the Ivies too?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>S was recruited by the Ivies (all but Brown) in a non-revenue sport. He was given the same applications packets all students had to fill out. Yes, he would have had to write the essays. He also had to have all the required SAT IIs. The only difference was that he was 'pre-screened' by admissions early on and, most likely, his AI (Academic Index) was determined. Also, he had received several verbal 'likelies' as well as a written 'likely letter' from one of the Ivies.</p>
<p>At U Penn he was given the regular admission packet, but it was 'flagged' (with a sticker, I believe) to alert admissions that he was a recruited athlete. Also, some other schools used 'coding' to indicate to admissions athletic recruits.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Suppose said student is only interested in Wharton at UPenn or the Walsh School at Georgetown, for example. Would the athletic hook be sufficient to bump them into a highly competitive program like those, or would it just serve for general admission to those universities?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>From our experience at UPenn, athletics can be a bump to get into Wharton. In fact, we were told that Wharton liked athletes because of their competitive nature. In S's sport, the coach said he had a 'spot' in Wharton. It seemed that this 'spot' was reserved for an athlete who was only interested in Wharton. Of course, it also mattered how much the coach wanted the particular recruit. S was told that he could have the spot if he wanted it. Although his stats were good, they probably were no where near that of the average Wharton admittee. I cannot tell you if this is the way it would have 'panned out', since S chose to accept an athletic scholarship and study engineering at a non-Ivy.</p>
<p>My son was a recruited athlete at Cornell. He did a pre-app, complete with photocopied scores, unofficial transcripts, essay, and also the interview required by the school within the University he was applying to. He received a verbal positive on his early read, and was instructed to apply ED with all official transcripts and score reports, identical essay and special flagged envelopes. He received a true likely letter at Thanksgiving and ED admission just before Christmas.</p>
<p>We did receive some guidance from the coach about which programs were likely to admit him with his particular qualifications.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My son was a recruited athlete at Cornell. He did a pre-app, complete with photocopied scores, unofficial transcripts, essay, and also the interview required by the school within the University he was applying to. He received a verbal positive on his early read, and was instructed to apply ED with all official transcripts and score reports, identical essay and special flagged envelopes. He received a true likely letter at Thanksgiving...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, that is also what I remember from Cornell.</p>
<p>TheGFG, d was a recruited athlete. i recall that an ivy coach specifically requested that she take SAT subject tests. At that time, they were still called SAT II's. sometimes ivies or other schools (patriot league) requested official transcripts from the high school. sometimes applications were to be completed and sent to the college coaches who would then turn them in to admissions. i can't recall if there were any markings on the applications, just that coaches would indicate that the application was to be completed and returned to them rather than sending straight to admissions. there were also schools where the application was sent straight to admissions. i think i remember that sometimes the question was asked on the applications if d planned to participate in a sport at the college or if she was in contact with a coach. </p>
<p>it's our understanding that d's application was strong enough that there wasn't any bump in admissions just due to sport. coaches usually reserve that bump for athletes with weaker applications.</p>
<p>
[quote]
He received a verbal positive on his early read, and was instructed to apply ED with all official transcripts and score reports, identical essay and special flagged envelopes. He received a true likely letter at Thanksgiving and ED admission just before Christmas.
[/quote]
Just wondering: What would happen if the financial aid isn't good enough for a family that needed it? Would the ED commitment on the kid's part not apply, because of the "verbal positive?"</p>
<p>
[quote]
it's our understanding that d's application was strong enough that there wasn't any bump in admissions just due to sport. coaches usually reserve that bump for athletes with weaker applications
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I personally do not agree with this statement. All athletes get some type of 'bump'. Usually, the coaches make up a list of athletes and number them. They will put the ones with the weaker stats at the top of the list and the stronger applicants at the bottom. The coach knows how many he can have on the list. I know of one young man, great stats, who was put at the bottom of the coach's list because he was an overall great applicant with very high stats. However, another sport needed another spot on its list and they took a spot away from this young man's sport. The young man got 'bumped' to the waitlist despite his exceptional stats. Happily, the young man did get pulled in from the waitlist. However, it was a stressful couple of months since he did not apply elsewhere and had to scramble to get some applications in before the regular admissions deadline passed.</p>
<p>D2 is a rising HS senior and has already verballed to a D1 program, not an Ivy...she won't go that far! Her application will be coded in some way. She does not have to write an essay but that is because of her high ACT English score, nothing to do with being an athlete. Each sport is different, each coach is different, each school is different. Do your homework, look for openess and honesty from the coach and admissions people. We have talked with DI,DII, and DIII coaches with both of our girls and were happy that they have each picked schools that they
loved and would love to be at even if they weren't playing a sport. You'll find that the kids find their connection. Good Luck!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Just wondering: What would happen if the financial aid isn't good enough for a family that needed it? Would the ED commitment on the kid's part not apply, because of the "verbal positive?"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>More than one school said that they would give us an 'early read' on financial aid. We would have to provide certain requested financial information and they would determine 'need'. This was the part of the process that seemed very complicated. S would have to apply ED, without really knowing if he was accepted until the ED notification date (that seems to be the way the Ivies do it....a likely is just a likely). Also, it was unclear that we would have the 'early read' on finaid before the end of the NLI signing period. So....if things didn't go as planned, he would have already foregone his scholarship opportunities at NLI institutions.</p>
<p>We went into Princeton's Online Financial Aid Calculator (I think that is what it is called) and determined that there was absolutely no way we would get any financial aid from any of the Ivies. Even with underestimating all our financial information. So, S decided to sign a NLI at a D I school that he really liked (the school and the team), was a great fit, and had a top 20 program in his field.</p>
<p>Although a couple of the Ivies were a temptation, the difference in the cost of the undergraduate education was so substantial that we had to take a long, hard look at all the options.</p>
<p>d did not apply ED to any schools but did apply EA and regular admission at a number of schools. we were able to review the financial aid packages and she made a decision by May 1.</p>
<p>we did receive a pre-read on f/a from a school but d did not apply ED to that school. since we were seeking out merit aid and/or need based aid it was best to not apply ED in our family's case. </p>
<p>the ivy ed process karp4170 describes does indeed sound complicated with the ED and likely letters. </p>
<p>d had been accepted at another school and we received a pre-read from them on f/a since she was accepted EA and the f/a package wouldn't have been mailed out until weeks later. she didn't end up choosing that school but it was good to have both the pre-read and the acceptance early on. </p>
<p>d applied to some schools where she was a recruited athlete and to some schools where she was not a recruited athlete. she was nmf so we wanted to have the option to review the f/a packages at the nmf colleges.</p>
<p>good post north minnesota. much boils down to the connection between the coaches and the recruit. it's good to ask lots of questions.</p>
<p>DS was a recruited baseball player - and had to fill out all of the applications, including writing the essays. The app was "flagged" using a variety of means - special envelope, sticker on application, coach signing the app across the top - the mechanism varied by school. </p>
<p>While the coaches indicated that they would monitor the app and make sure it was processed promptly, especially at schools with rolling admission, his stats were good enough he did not need a bump. Where the bump did occur was in financial aid office where more than once a FA processor called him to remind him to apply for this or that scholarship - in some cases ones that we did not know even existed (buried deep in the website). Nothing illegal - just the school making sure the package that they offered was as complete as possible.</p>
<p>As for the bump into special programs, I am not sure that the athletic department did as much as the school understanding that sports, particularly played at a high level, is an EC. Son did get into a number of these programs.</p>
<p>Also, a point I would like to make nofe of is that, in many sports, most scholarship dollars are given away in the early signing period. I know a number athletes that 'held out' to the late signing period hoping to improve their stats and get additional $$ only to find out that the schools they were interested in had none left. This should at least be kept in mind and investigated to see if it is typical in your sport.</p>
<p>My greatest advice is to start early and be proactive. Research the schools, research the academic programs, research the athletic teams. Ask others whose children have been recruited in the same sport and or the same school. Ask the coaches about any concerns related to athletics and particularly their interest in your athlete (This should be done by the student, at least initially). Determine you child's needs (academic, social, athletic). Determine you family's needs (personal, financial).</p>
<p>Finally, I wish all student-athletes who will be involved in the recruiting process this fall the best of luck.</p>