Athletic scholarships and need-based aid

Parents Forum
1

<p>I am aware that some colleges (e.g. Ivies and others) are very generous when it comes to funding need-based financial aid. What I mean is that they frequently will fund 100 percent of the expected need (possibly including significant loans). Other schools have reputations that they only provide much less than 100 percent of the calculated need. For example, by looking at the financial aid section of the college info listed on <a href="http://www.usnews.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.usnews.com&lt;/a>, some schools meet only 70 percent or less of the calculated need. Penn State is a particularly lousy school in this regard, reportedly only meeting 57 percent of the calculated need, according to US News.</p>

<p>Does anyone know if colleges such as Penn State that have very bad financial aid in general ever adjust this for athletes? In other words, if a kid is an excellent athlete and has been given a partial or full tuition scholarship, would Penn State then be more likely to meet more than its "normal" 57 percent of the need?</p>

<p>I am very fortunate in that my oldest son has a full-tuition scholarship to USC, and my daughter who will enter college in the fall of 2006 has even stronger credentials, so we are not worried personally. But a very good friend of mine has a son who is an excellent goal-keeper in soccer, and has several Division-1 colleges interested in him. Because my friend is in the middle of a job change, has both of his other children in college at the same time, and does not have an extremely strong income, I would assume his EFC per child would only be around $3000 or less. In case you are unaware, Division-1 men's soccer has only something like 9.9 total scholarships per school, and frequently grants 1/2 or 1/4 tuition scholarships, even to excellent players. I am trying to get information for my friend to help his son decide on the best financial package for each school, and Penn State is one school he is interested in.</p>

<p>Since my kids are more academic and not likely to receive an athletic scholarship, I do not know much about this field. Does anyone on CC have experience with Division-1 athletic scholarships? Do colleges that offer partial athletic scholarships increase their need-based aid over what they would offer a typical student (I do not mean beyond the calculated need)?</p>

<p>I guess my friend and his son could simply wait until the spring to see what the actual financial aid offer is, but I am not sure if soccer coaches would ever expect an acceptance of an offer of a partial scholarship before the total financial aid numbers are in.</p>

<p>Any help would be greatly appreciated.</p>

2

<p>Is your friend's son above-average academically? Often, smart athletes will be given a half scholarship for athletics and a half or fourth scholarship for academics.</p>

3

<p>We need to know:</p>

<ul>
<li>academic stats</li>
<li>athletic level</li>
</ul>

<p>Depending on D1- D3, there are many different scenarios.</p>

4

<p>I don't know his exact academic stats, but he is only an above-average student. I would guess his stats are something like 550 to 600 on each part of the SAT-I, and he has an A-B average in his classes, which are not at the highest level. An academic scholarship is unlikely.</p>

<p>In terms of soccer, he has the highest qualifications. Last year, he had an approximately 0.30 goals against average in the largest schools in Pennsylvania, and was named an NSCAA high school All American. He has already been contacted by some of the better Division I soccer coaches, telling him thay have some interest (they have only been allowed to contact him since July 1st), but I know from experience that comparable boys soccer players do not necessarily receive a full scholarship, because: (1) Division mens programs are only allowed to offer a total of 9.9 scholarships; (2) there are 11 starters on a team; and (3) many colleges already have a starting goal keeper who is a sophomore, junior, etc.</p>

<p>He only has interest playing at the Division 1 level.</p>

5

<p>I suspect that your firend should first calculate the EFC for a variety of schools t get a sense of what that family's EFC is. If it is doable, it sure makes sense to apply to need based 100% schools that fit academicaly and athletically.</p>

<p>It also might be wise to shoot a bit lower athletically to get something a bit higher academically, picking a school that covers 100% of need &/or is known for merit aid. I lower D1 or a strong D3 might be falling all over themselves to get a stong D1 player.</p>

<p>BTW I have a friend who's kid was offered a 10K/year award at a D3 school that supposedly does not give any athletic scholartships. I mention it because at a similarly-priced D1, her kid did not get one cent of aid. </p>

<p>So I suspect there are some "Need based" and "merit" awards out there that are really athletic scholarships.</p>

6

<p>I checked the ncaa website and here are some ideas.</p>

<p>First, your friend's S may want to focus on schools that are regionally ranked but not in national top 25. These are schools that "care" but do not attract every superstar. If you go too low, the school does not focus on the team sufficiently. If you go too high, there is too much competition from other soccer stars. JMHO.</p>

<p>D1 NE schools in this tier are URI, UVM, Fairfield, Hofstra, Stonybrook, Binghamton, Seton Hall, Temple, Lehigh, Villanova, & Lafayette. (You can find any region in the US for a similar list, I just did New Eng, NY & Mid Atlantic and mentioned schools at the right stat level.) My understanding is that for Ivy or NESCAC you need about an 1800+ to be recruitable, though perhaps they would go lower...?</p>

<p>Alternatively, try the top of the D3 heap, see if any of these do need based at 100% or offer merit awards for sports merit: UCSC, SUNY Genesco, Trinity (Tx), St Lawrence U, Allgheny, Wheaton, Babson, Redlands, & Salisbury. (I suspect Allegheny may offer merit for sports; my D was offered merit there and I believe sports was one of the qualifiers... maybe others do too?)</p>

<p>Finally there are the religious D3s and NAIA schools if these are of appeal.</p>

<p>All of the schools I have listed ought to be possible for a 1500-1800 SAT kid who is a soccer star. They range from dinky LACs to big state Us so there is plenty of variety.</p>

<p>The book "Playing the Game" has a wealth of info for recruitment. Time is of the essence as the coaches begin to solidify their ranked lists in the very early fall. Your friend's S will probably be asked to sign a letter of intent or apply ED to a school if they are really into him.</p>

<p>Check out my old thread "Is enthusiastic coach call = likely letter?" for more pertinent info.</p>

7

<p>"In terms of soccer, he has the highest qualifications. Last year, he had an approximately 0.30 goals against average in the largest schools in Pennsylvania, and was named an NSCAA high school All American."</p>

<p>You may check the NSCAA website to see where the NSCAA High School All American have gone in 2003 and 2004. This would give a good idea of possible colleges that value NSCAA All-Americans goalkeepers. It seems that they are a very rare commodity. Another good source is to check which schools offered scholarships to the players of national powerhouses at the club level such as your local FC Delco. I believe that PA is not very different from Texas and that for soccer recruiting HS soccer is not as important as club soccer. </p>

<p>Your friend should be overwhelmed by the level of interest that confirmed All-Americans garner. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.nscaa.com/awards/index_E.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nscaa.com/awards/index_E.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Click under the various years to see the full list of awardees.</p>

8

<p>I would expect that the NCAA has very strict rules on combining partial athletic scholies with financial aid $$$ so schools don't do an end run around the rules designed to limit total scholies in a sport.</p>

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<p>A true soccer star with 600 SATs on each part and an A-B average can get into any school in the country, bar none. Not only can, but do. But the question is, obviously, who needs a goalie that year? And who is the true "star"? That's for the colleges to decide.</p>

<p>It is time to send tapes and stats NOW (actually, it is already getting late). Coaches are busy drawing up their wishlists even as we speak. </p>

<p>As for "need-based" aid, with an EFC of $3k or so, if the school wants him, he can pretty much expect a full-ride or close to it anywhere he is accepted, provided the coaches "tip" him. The colleges - Ivies included - will compete for him on the basis of money, as well all the Div I schools that want him.</p>

10

<p>Actually, the number of athletic scholarships offered are not as abundant as Mini suggests. The trend is also to offer "partial" scholarships, even to the so called super stars. </p>

<p>Ironically, the kid mentioned above actually has a better shot at getting $$ than some others . I know someone with excellent credentials, SAT above 1500, BUT did not qualify for any need based aid. (my son) He may have been given the edge in admittance to a particular Ivy that was "recruiting" him, but he was unwilling to commit early to the coach, and actually decided he did not want to go there. There was never any discussion about $$$.</p>

<p>Quote: "Often, smart athletes will be given a half scholarship for athletics and a half or fourth scholarship for academics."</p>

<p>From what we observed, that is pretty rare at most elite schools, particularly for kids who qualify for no need based aid. </p>

<p>Quote: "The colleges - Ivies included - will compete for him on the basis of money, as well all the Div I schools that want him."</p>

<p>Again, this may not apply to the smart kids who do not qualify for any need based aid! Some Div I schools that are not as strong academically realize that a strong academic athlete will probably favor a strong academic school, so don't even waste time recruiting them.</p>

11

<p>Perhaps I'm off-base, but doesn't what you just wrote amount to the same thing I said, which it is the colleges who determine who (for them) is the "true star"? I don't assume there are many of them (in fact, I assume there are very few), but I imagine the competition for them is very fierce.</p>

<p>"The colleges - Ivies included - will compete for him on the basis of money, as well all the Div I schools that want him."</p>

<p>Already noted was the fact that his EFC was $3,000. I wasn't speaking in generalities.</p>

12

<p>Sorry Mini, maybe I misinterpreted what you said.</p>

<p>I do think that many parents (we were originally in that group with S) are deluded into thinking that their kid will get a free ride to college if they are a good athlete. S was good enough to compete in D-I (some schools), but we got nothing as far as $$$.</p>

<p>That said, my H and 13 year old daughter are eight hours away from home at a junior olympic softball tournament as we speak. She also competes in club soccer, and AAU basketball. Our only hope is that Title IX kicks in somehow..... :) :) :)</p>

<p>If not, we will never be able to retire.</p>

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<p>Yup. Know the feeling. I've got the Div. I gymnast....</p>

14

<p>In some sports, football, basketball, volleyball for example, one person equals one scholarship. These are called head count sports. In other sports, like soccer, baseball, track, swimming, a scholarship can be divided up into as many pieces as the coach wishes. If an athlete in a non-head count sport is exceptional, a school will usually find a way to give them the equivalent of a full ride. They will offer a combination of athletic and academic scholarships, grants from the athlete's state (if available), university grants, and Federal grants if the student is eligible. Athletes cannot get more money than the cost of their education.</p>

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<p>tsdad,</p>

<p>Does that mostly apply to state or pubic universities?</p>

16

<p>D is going to play soccer for small D-1 school. She had excellent grades and above average sat scores. She played for an elite club team on the west coast and attended camp at the college of her choice. The bottom line is very complex. How many postions do they need to fill, and is that the position you play? Is the coach in a position to help you and if he/she is they usually use their influence on players who are willing to apply ED. Bottom line was my D could have attended many lesser known schools with a full-ride, but chose a selective lac as she realized that the school itself was more important than the soccer. She was given a small scholarship but by no means a full boat. Final advice, ask a lot of questions of the coaches, be wary, and let the athlete choose the school they could be happy with if the game ended tomorrow.</p>

17

<p>"I do think that many parents (we were originally in that group with S) are deluded into thinking that their kid will get a free ride to college if they are a good athlete."</p>

<p>One of the reasons is that many proud parents, in sideline discussions, like to mention, "Yes, my son (or daughter) got a soccer scholarship," but do not add that the famous scholarship might be a 1/4 or even less or that the school is far from prestigious. People "in the know" realize that the numbers mentioned in this thread for non-headcount sports are not that great. Start with less than 10 scholarships, reduce by the scholarships going to a couple of superstars, and you soon realize that the remaining 7 or 8 "full rides" are to be divided between 20 players.</p>

18

<p>Sokkermom:</p>

<p>If you're asking whether state schools offer the combination of aid the answer is it depends on the school. The coach at any particular school would be the best source for the information. In fact, my statement about combining funds was based on a Title IX athletics review of the distribution of athletic financial assistance I did at a private university in the ACC. I have no reason to doubt that public schools also do this. </p>

<p>In fact a bright and poor blue chipper might be able to get a full ride without even getting any athletic financial assistance from a school. I have also seen athletes give up athletic financial assistance for an equivalent non-athletic grant because it lessens their obligation to the coach. Remember being a Division I athlete, especially if you are on a scholarship, is a full-time job. When you are not practicing or playing during the season you are working out and/or recoverying from a sport-related operation or injury. Coaches own you year-round.</p>

19

<p>Thanks for everyone’s advice.</p>

<p>I had told my friend that he mostly needs to compare the total financial aid package, rather than just the athletic scholarship component. For example, his son has been contacted by Wake Forest (a top Division 1 men’s soccer school and good academic school). Even though they already have a couple goal keepers, they are interested in his son. He attended their soccer camp this summer, and he liked the coaches, and they seemed to like him. However, he would likely receive a larger athletic scholarship from one of the other schools he is considering that is specifically recruiting a goal keeper as a high priority for fall 2006. Nevertheless, what I have suggested to my friend is that even if he gets little or no athletic scholarship from Wake Forest, it still MIGHT be financially less expensive than a half or 3/4-tuition athletic scholarship from another school that gives bad need-based financial aid.</p>

<p>His son is a great kid who has excellent character. I am sure he will do okay in college, but he really wants to see if he has what it takes to play professional soccer. That is why he is not interested in Division III schools. He knows that statistically it is a long shot to make it in professional soccer, but if you don’t try you will never know. Once he gets whatever scholarship and financial aid offers he will receive, he will have to sort out in his own mind the likelihood that he will ever get the opportunity to get playing time. </p>

<p>One of the other schools where he will attend camp this summer is looking for a goal keeper and is very interested. They have said that if he does well at their camp that they may be prepared to make him a scholarship offer at that time. Does anyone know how athletic scholarship offers work in terms of timing? In other words, if they offer him a 3/4 tuition athletic scholarship at the end of July, when would he find out about the estimated need-based financial aid? Would he find out next spring when the other entering students would, or do athletic departments have connections to let you get informed estimates ahead of time? Will he typically be allowed to consider the need-based aid before he has to make a decision?</p>

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<p>Something that knowledgable folks have warned us about is: you don't want the student to be in over his/her head academically just because the coach wants them for their sport. Like Work Forest (Wake Forest's other name) I know athletes have access to lots of academic support but that is something to consider.</p>